A intercooler is a intercooler....right???
Buy Corky Bell's book on turbos (Maximum Boost) or blowers (Supercharged!) and he has all the formulas for speccing the correct size and layout. If you have room, make it larger than you need for some growing room and a lower pressure drop. And use lots of shorter hot air channels instead of a few longer ones like many ebay ICs.
Jim
Jim
APS does a decent job of explaining a bit...
"Vertical flow inside the APS intercooler is by far the optimum configuration given the space considerations that must be accounted for in the front of the vehicle. This solves the huge air flow restriction problems that horizontal flow cores experience particularly at high power levels.
"The horizontal flow configuration shown above forces the charge air to flow through very few internal intercooler passages. In addition, each internal passage is very long, causing further restriction to charge air flow - resulting in a high pressure drop. In other words, the long route with few passages"
"The vertical flow configuration as specified by APS spreads the charge air flow evenly over a far greater number of internal passages and results in significantly less restriction. The path length of each internal passage is also shorter, further improving air flow over a horizontal design. The net effect is a short route with many passages resulting in a massive charge air reduction but with improved air flow."
There is definitely a difference between intercoolers not only in design but form and function. Or you guys can stop playing games and put a nice A/W on it with a large reservoir/heat exchanger.
-Wade
"Vertical flow inside the APS intercooler is by far the optimum configuration given the space considerations that must be accounted for in the front of the vehicle. This solves the huge air flow restriction problems that horizontal flow cores experience particularly at high power levels.
"The horizontal flow configuration shown above forces the charge air to flow through very few internal intercooler passages. In addition, each internal passage is very long, causing further restriction to charge air flow - resulting in a high pressure drop. In other words, the long route with few passages"
"The vertical flow configuration as specified by APS spreads the charge air flow evenly over a far greater number of internal passages and results in significantly less restriction. The path length of each internal passage is also shorter, further improving air flow over a horizontal design. The net effect is a short route with many passages resulting in a massive charge air reduction but with improved air flow."
There is definitely a difference between intercoolers not only in design but form and function. Or you guys can stop playing games and put a nice A/W on it with a large reservoir/heat exchanger.
-Wade
I'm not saying the ebay coolers are the 'best' by any means, but its hard to argue the success a lot of people have had with them.
About the design...cross flow vs. top flow... thats kind of irrelevant to the "maker". You can get the cheap ones in either form.
The consentration of cooling fins.... the more fins the less air flow right? So what is better? A million fins and slower moving air? or less fins (to a degree) and more air? The intercooler isnt a 1:1 cooler meaning the heat disipates as fast as it absorbs it so if it takes 10% longer to cool after a run is it really worth $700. more?
I've welded aluminum for a long time, and when welding it you can tell what aluminum is poor quality and what isnt. I havnt seen a difference.
About the design...cross flow vs. top flow... thats kind of irrelevant to the "maker". You can get the cheap ones in either form.
The consentration of cooling fins.... the more fins the less air flow right? So what is better? A million fins and slower moving air? or less fins (to a degree) and more air? The intercooler isnt a 1:1 cooler meaning the heat disipates as fast as it absorbs it so if it takes 10% longer to cool after a run is it really worth $700. more?
About the design...cross flow vs. top flow... thats kind of irrelevant to the "maker". You can get the cheap ones in either form.
The consentration of cooling fins.... the more fins the less air flow right? So what is better? A million fins and slower moving air? or less fins (to a degree) and more air? The intercooler isnt a 1:1 cooler meaning the heat disipates as fast as it absorbs it so if it takes 10% longer to cool after a run is it really worth $700. more?
The ebay units heat up due to lack of proper design, but cool off quicker due to that design. The more expensive cores may take longer to cool off, but I think their superior design they'll overcome the basis of their thermodynamic disadvantage.
The thermal capacity of something determines the amount of heat it can abort. The thermal coefficient determines the rate at which heat is aborted or dissipated. The thermal coefficient is the same for absorbing or dissipating. Poorer quality aluminum has a much lower thermal coefficient than purer aluminum. A good design can only overcome poor a thermal coefficient and/or thermal capacity of a material so much. Good material cost more because they are better.
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Verdad Gallardo The thermal capacity of something determines the amount of heat it can abort. The thermal coefficient determines the rate at which heat is aborted or dissipated. The thermal coefficient is the same for absorbing or dissipating. Poorer quality aluminum has a much lower thermal coefficient than purer aluminum. A good design can only overcome poor a thermal coefficient and/or thermal capacity of a material so much. Good material cost more because they are better.
The thermal capacity of something determines the amount of heat it can abort. The thermal coefficient determines the rate at which heat is aborted or dissipated. The thermal coefficient is the same for absorbing or dissipating. Poorer quality aluminum has a much lower thermal coefficient than purer aluminum. A good design can only overcome poor a thermal coefficient and/or thermal capacity of a material so much. Good material cost more because they are better.
Swap a few around, I have..
The alumium on the cheap intercoolers is very high quality (ones I got). If you've ever welded aluminum you'd know the difference between shitty and good aluminum BIG difference. When you melt it (tig welding) the crappy stuff has a lot of impurities in it and welds like ****, you usually have to go over it a couple times before you burn/boil all the crap out of it to make a decent looking weld, these intercoolers are made of aluminum that welds perfect. So that rules out the material quality.
The alumium on the cheap intercoolers is very high quality (ones I got). If you've ever welded aluminum you'd know the difference between shitty and good aluminum BIG difference. When you melt it (tig welding) the crappy stuff has a lot of impurities in it and welds like ****, you usually have to go over it a couple times before you burn/boil all the crap out of it to make a decent looking weld, these intercoolers are made of aluminum that welds perfect. So that rules out the material quality.
There is no doubt that fin count/placement will make a difference in heat transfer and the aluminum itself does as well. If you look at a quality core there are thinner, more numerous and better formed fins in there - no argument there. But in the end I have not seen anyone put an exact number on it, is it 5% better, 10% better, 50% better? Way too many factors/combinations to get good data.
I learned long ago that paying for quality IS a good thing, especially on a performance car. But overpaying for something you may not need, especially if you are on a tight budget, isnt prudent either. If these eBay intercoolers were falling apart, blowing out, leaking, fins falling out and going into the engine etc, I would be the first to trash them. But IMO for 130.00 or so its hard to beat, if you do upgrade to better quality IC down the road and it helps you thats awesome, you are out less than the price of a couple silicone couplers and t-bolt clamps on the old intercooler after you sell it off.
The thermal capacity of something determines the amount of heat it can abort. The thermal coefficient determines the rate at which heat is aborted or dissipated. The thermal coefficient is the same for absorbing or dissipating. Poorer quality aluminum has a much lower thermal coefficient than purer aluminum. A good design can only overcome poor a thermal coefficient and/or thermal capacity of a material so much. Good material cost more because they are better.
a bit off topic ,but i,ave been looking at these ebay intercooler for a tt set up
been looking at goodseed ,cxlighting and treadstone performance can any one comment
on any of these coolers.are these coolers made in the usa or what or are they all chinese ones
been looking at goodseed ,cxlighting and treadstone performance can any one comment
on any of these coolers.are these coolers made in the usa or what or are they all chinese ones
Treadstone actually makes a very good product. They manufacture cast end tanks, along with sheetmetal ones, and I have seen really good increases/IAT drops with their intercoolers over some procharger ones.
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
the first rule of thumb when figuring out size of aic you need to know your hp so you can figure out the total cfm you need to support your hp yes i know everybody knows there hp but what iam saying is you have formula that gives you your cfm you need to make your ic make and the guys on here saying the long side to side tubes really suck for any kind of cfm and vertical flow tubes with a max run of 12'' make incredble amount of cfm and fast with little to none drop just amazing 
Just thought I would add, I found a boost leak in the middle of my Ebay IC, there is no way it could have been a rock or anything, must have been there all along. Unsure where it is at exactly but it is between the fins, and you can feel it blowing out the front and the back of the intercooler. A friend has ran this same company's intercooler before and it did not have a leak.
