A intercooler is a intercooler....right???
06-09-2009, 12:51 PM
#1
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A intercooler is a intercooler....right??? Just curious of what seperates the "ebay" intercoolers from the high dollar intercoolers from the ones that the sponsors offer. Whats the diffrence??
06-09-2009, 02:26 PM
#2
The one that cost more is probably built by a union shop that gets paid 10x more to make. Also they are union workers so it takes them about 10 hours longer to do, your paying for the 15 breaks they take between building it and the wages for any of them out of work at the time being. But hey....your getting a quality peice. lol.
And they wonder why The United States is plummiting to its death.
Ive looked over expensive ones at vendor stands at shows and I purchased an expensive core for my first build. The difference is the extra zero in the price and a fancy sticker with a name brand on it. Now that ive learned more I use the ebay ones.
And they wonder why The United States is plummiting to its death.
Ive looked over expensive ones at vendor stands at shows and I purchased an expensive core for my first build. The difference is the extra zero in the price and a fancy sticker with a name brand on it. Now that ive learned more I use the ebay ones.
06-09-2009, 02:30 PM
#3
The mian difference that I found with the ebay ones is that I couldn't find one that was as big as what I wanted. Instead I bought a used NIB unit from a member. He ended up paying the union dues and I got a big, made in USA IC at a little, made in China price.
06-09-2009, 03:20 PM
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the one that cost more is probably built by a union shop that gets paid 10x more to make. Also they are union workers so it takes them about 10 hours longer to do, your paying for the 15 breaks they take between building it and the wages for any of them out of work at the time being. But hey....your getting a quality peice. Lol.
And they wonder why the united states is plummiting to its death.
Ive looked over expensive ones at vendor stands at shows and i purchased an expensive core for my first build. The difference is the extra zero in the price and a fancy sticker with a name brand on it. Now that ive learned more i use the ebay ones.
And they wonder why the united states is plummiting to its death.
Ive looked over expensive ones at vendor stands at shows and i purchased an expensive core for my first build. The difference is the extra zero in the price and a fancy sticker with a name brand on it. Now that ive learned more i use the ebay ones.
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06-09-2009, 05:35 PM
#9
I hope everyone here working non-union construction or manufacturing trades of any kind enjoys their current work schedule, having weekends, lunch breaks, +40hr OT rules / labor laws of any kind, fair salary and workplace saftey regulations. Where did all that junk come from anyways? Stupid unions....we should just go back to the industrial revolution days. Who likes days off anyways right? For the record....i know im gonna get flamed for this, and dont care 
06-09-2009, 06:38 PM
#11
Effiiciency of the design, bad welding can cause leaks.You have bar and plate and tube and fin both with advantages and disadvantages. Some shops use a hybrid type.
tube and fin thik is more vulnerable to rock damage. Bar and plate tougher but think tube and fin is more efficient . So again a hybrid type might be best.
But if you guys think they are all the same no problem. Buy the cheapest one you find on ebay and be happy.
tube and fin thik is more vulnerable to rock damage. Bar and plate tougher but think tube and fin is more efficient . So again a hybrid type might be best.
But if you guys think they are all the same no problem. Buy the cheapest one you find on ebay and be happy.
06-09-2009, 06:39 PM
#12
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Dude im with you. Im trying to get my *** in the union right now.
Some people must be drinking there Haterraid. I know allot of union workers and there some of the hardest wost skillful workers i know. They also go to school once a week for there trade so they are always up to par on there knowledge of there trade.
Some people must be drinking there Haterraid. I know allot of union workers and there some of the hardest wost skillful workers i know. They also go to school once a week for there trade so they are always up to par on there knowledge of there trade.
06-09-2009, 07:24 PM
#14
material quality, air /fin density
Precision Bar and plate
HKS tube and fin
Ebay B&P (note the relatively low fin density, no staggering of the fins, and little done to encourage vortices to maximize heat transfer):
outside fin design
precision core
Precision (notice the density and the slits in the fins where the excess metal is canted outward into the flow):
Garret Core
HKS (again, lots of slits and they are canted into the airflow):
Ebay (harder to see but the fin density on the outside is less and, while the fins do have slits, they are not canted into the airflow -good for letting air get to the radiator though!):
the top name brands are definitely better than the cheap ones on ebay, and other sites. There is definitely a difference in the fin design, the alloys used to make the intercooler, the fatigue protection from high boost, the ability to transfer heat quickly and avoid heat soak, as well as keeping pressure drop to a minimum (which is also in part due to the proper sizing of your intercooler for your application). Bell make an excellent core, my first intercooler was a Bell core. My newest core is a 24"x12"x3.5" Garrett Core. It is designed to support up to 925 HP ( Garrett actually under rates their intercoolers). The Bar and plate design of this core, as well as the fin design are of superior quality. Their cores are not the cheapest, but they are worth the money if they fit your budget. I have attached a few close up pictures of my Garrett Core for you see the fin design. As mentioned in a previous post, you can see the fin density, vortice design and fin staggering is manufactured to provide quick heat exchange.
Precision Bar and plate
HKS tube and fin
Ebay B&P (note the relatively low fin density, no staggering of the fins, and little done to encourage vortices to maximize heat transfer):
outside fin design
precision core
Precision (notice the density and the slits in the fins where the excess metal is canted outward into the flow):
Garret Core
HKS (again, lots of slits and they are canted into the airflow):
Ebay (harder to see but the fin density on the outside is less and, while the fins do have slits, they are not canted into the airflow -good for letting air get to the radiator though!):
the top name brands are definitely better than the cheap ones on ebay, and other sites. There is definitely a difference in the fin design, the alloys used to make the intercooler, the fatigue protection from high boost, the ability to transfer heat quickly and avoid heat soak, as well as keeping pressure drop to a minimum (which is also in part due to the proper sizing of your intercooler for your application). Bell make an excellent core, my first intercooler was a Bell core. My newest core is a 24"x12"x3.5" Garrett Core. It is designed to support up to 925 HP ( Garrett actually under rates their intercoolers). The Bar and plate design of this core, as well as the fin design are of superior quality. Their cores are not the cheapest, but they are worth the money if they fit your budget. I have attached a few close up pictures of my Garrett Core for you see the fin design. As mentioned in a previous post, you can see the fin density, vortice design and fin staggering is manufactured to provide quick heat exchange.
06-09-2009, 08:36 PM
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I don't know of any ebay air to air coolers running 8.2's? (fbody) I really don't think they are made the same. The pics above prove that, nice pics!
Last edited by LASTLS1; 06-09-2009 at 10:14 PM.
06-09-2009, 09:41 PM
#17
But OTOH EFI renegade cars with no intercooler go 8.50s and blow through carb cars with no intercoolers go mid 7s.
IMO a road race or rally car intercooler core efficiency would make a difference, drag car just needs mass, an A2A is nothing but a giant heat sink in a drag race car. There just isnt enough time and airflow in 8 seconds to make much difference.
I tried a huge high dollar spearco cored intercooler in my old car, zero difference in IAT or boost. I didnt log the pressure differential but I assume the eBay wasnt a restriction since the car didnt pick up anything. Of course there is a point where the 4" eBay is going to become a restriction, I sure wouldnt use it on a 8.20 car simply because it probably doesnt flow enough air for that kind of power.
06-09-2009, 09:55 PM
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a little off the subject question guys. how do you figure the size that is needed for your application? i know turbo and engine size and psi you will be running. just wondering how you do your figures?
06-09-2009, 10:09 PM
#19
Jim
06-09-2009, 10:13 PM
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No, but I ran 8.9s with one at 347 cid and an eBay IC and could have gone quicker with a bigger engine. Thats probably more than most people will ever need.
But OTOH EFI renegade cars with no intercooler go 8.50s and blow through carb cars with no intercoolers go mid 7s.
IMO a road race or rally car intercooler core efficiency would make a difference, drag car just needs mass, an A2A is nothing but a giant heat sink in a drag race car. There just isnt enough time and airflow in 8 seconds to make much difference.
I tried a huge high dollar spearco cored intercooler in my old car, zero difference in IAT or boost. I didnt log the pressure differential but I assume the eBay wasnt a restriction since the car didnt pick up anything. Of course there is a point where the 4" eBay is going to become a restriction, I sure wouldnt use it on a 8.20 car simply because it probably doesnt flow enough air for that kind of power.
But OTOH EFI renegade cars with no intercooler go 8.50s and blow through carb cars with no intercoolers go mid 7s.
IMO a road race or rally car intercooler core efficiency would make a difference, drag car just needs mass, an A2A is nothing but a giant heat sink in a drag race car. There just isnt enough time and airflow in 8 seconds to make much difference.
I tried a huge high dollar spearco cored intercooler in my old car, zero difference in IAT or boost. I didnt log the pressure differential but I assume the eBay wasnt a restriction since the car didnt pick up anything. Of course there is a point where the 4" eBay is going to become a restriction, I sure wouldnt use it on a 8.20 car simply because it probably doesnt flow enough air for that kind of power.
Yea Kevin, I think it's air flow ~ restriction. Speed has replaced just the IC and picked up HUGE hp on the dyno.
I just sold mine and I'm going to A/W.