roots vs twin screw
TECH Veteran
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,662
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From: Sun Diego
Is it possible that part of the issue is complete kits vs. hodgepodge parts, assembly, and tuning? The TVS 1900 on the CTS-V and the TVS 2300 on the ZR1 have the advantage of full OEM R&D and production. Magnuson also has complete kits (manifolds, H/E + intercoolers, injectors, tuning, etc.), whereas all that KB and Whipple do is sell you a compressor. You're on your own as far as fabbing up, choosing your injectors and tuning. This has to be a factor in the dearth of high-functioning screw setups.
Many of my facts come from the mouth of the nuts you swing from. The new "upgrade IAT" because the old one had a problem.
The inlet is a restriction for anyone that wants to make good power yet everyone is shown a 800rwhp dyno sheet thinking they can simply bolt this blower on a built 413 or 408 motor and make anywhere close to that.
Bring the truth. We all wanna hear it!
I have seen some respectable Cobras with the KB's under the hoods. Just not more than one large displacement Corvette and even that would have made much more with any decent power adder. That's a fact that can't be denied. I have also seen many people try and fail. I'm just hoping you're not one of them. Don't worry if you are though. There's still enough hype that someone might buy it from you. If your "trying new things" doesn't work out so well.
Bolt your heads on and show us the truth.
I was busy and then at Carlisle all weekend so couldn't respond. Glad you found the correct info yourself. I started this thread to learn something. I have no experience or biases with either kind of blower. The zr1 results are extremely impressive and I was curious as to whether the TVS had closed the gap between twin screw and roots or if the ls9 was just more bad *** than the ford motors.
Jim
I was busy and then at Carlisle all weekend so couldn't respond. Glad you found the correct info yourself. I started this thread to learn something. I have no experience or biases with either kind of blower. The zr1 results are extremely impressive and I was curious as to whether the TVS had closed the gap between twin screw and roots or if the ls9 was just more bad *** than the ford motors.
For the record and in case no one's seen it, Magnuson has a video of a Duttweiler built 434 with a small cam in it making 950hp at 15psi.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9...YNO_154043.htm
Certainly more displacement in the LS9.
For the record and in case no one's seen it, Magnuson has a video of a Duttweiler built 434 with a small cam in it making 950hp at 15psi.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9...YNO_154043.htm
For the record and in case no one's seen it, Magnuson has a video of a Duttweiler built 434 with a small cam in it making 950hp at 15psi.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9...YNO_154043.htm
Very respectable numbers! 150hp more then the highest reported KB and I bet its not tired from being completely maxed out!
I am done arguing with you over this. As far as nutswinging I don't have a reason not to nutswing on Jeff as he has always been helpful and available. However the issues I have had lately are from a former forum vendor and you will not see me bash or even talk bad about them....ever because there are avenues for this and I am not some kid. Grow up
Because 1 car with an overspun blower (which I believe voids the warranty check with Kenne Bell directly for an accurate answer on this) and large displacement posted 800rwhp? Assumption - that it was overspun. This was an 15 psi run which I hit with a 3.5 top and 7.5 bottom
Why did Jeff post up a "fix" for the IAT issue if it wasn't broken in the first place? This is where you are wrong. I have been talking about the IAT movement and meth system integration as soon as I bought the blower 3 years ago from Jeff. Why 3 years? Part of that time I was in Afghanistan
Why is Jeff trying to work on an unchoked inlet if it isn't restricted in the existing design? How many belt designs, restrictor inlets, intercoolers, flip drive, brackets have the centri guys gone through?
rather than speak from personal experience? I think I do as stated..
Because 1 car with an overspun blower (which I believe voids the warranty check with Kenne Bell directly for an accurate answer on this) and large displacement posted 800rwhp? Assumption - that it was overspun. This was an 15 psi run which I hit with a 3.5 top and 7.5 bottom
Why did Jeff post up a "fix" for the IAT issue if it wasn't broken in the first place? This is where you are wrong. I have been talking about the IAT movement and meth system integration as soon as I bought the blower 3 years ago from Jeff. Why 3 years? Part of that time I was in Afghanistan
Why is Jeff trying to work on an unchoked inlet if it isn't restricted in the existing design? How many belt designs, restrictor inlets, intercoolers, flip drive, brackets have the centri guys gone through?
rather than speak from personal experience? I think I do as stated..
Last edited by Z06PSI; Jun 30, 2009 at 03:21 PM.
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IAT's... Again, anyone worth their salt in tuning knows that IAT's are DIRECTLY related to airflow and air compression. If your anemic on air, then you try to compress it, your temps WILL go up. This will be a non issue within the next 3 weeks. Although the IAT's will always be higher than other forms of F/I, they will be more than manageable. The member with 250* IAT's... The poster must have forgotten that the member had his damned cooling system ran backwards.. I have personally installed more KB's on LS platforms than anyone in the country, and I can say from first hand experience, we have NEVER had IAT's that high. Even in 117* ambient temps.
Also, there have been 800+rwhp KB LS vehicles for 3 years now. Its nothing new. But this is a debate that will continue until the new inlet is released. Until then, it is very difficult to make the power. But it has NOTHING to do with the blower itself.
IAT's... Again, anyone worth their salt in tuning knows that IAT's are DIRECTLY related to airflow and air compression. If your anemic on air, then you try to compress it, your temps WILL go up. This will be a non issue within the next 3 weeks. Although the IAT's will always be higher than other forms of F/I, they will be more than manageable. The member with 250* IAT's... The poster must have forgotten that the member had his damned cooling system ran backwards.. I have personally installed more KB's on LS platforms than anyone in the country, and I can say from first hand experience, we have NEVER had IAT's that high. Even in 117* ambient temps.
Also, there have been 800+rwhp KB LS vehicles for 3 years now. Its nothing new. But this is a debate that will continue until the new inlet is released. Until then, it is very difficult to make the power. But it has NOTHING to do with the blower itself.
Last edited by 02SSLE; Jun 30, 2009 at 06:57 PM.
Keep up would ya? You refuse accept a 950 engine dyno horsepower pull at 15psi, yet you're going to prove something to the readers on a dyno. You don't accept a real world IAT reading at on the track, yet you're going to show the readers your IAT logs off a short pull on the dyno to prove the IAT's are in line. That is what we call a dyno queen!
You say you have experience with this product because you own one, but haven't done anything with it but blow up your motor and let it sit for a year. Where's the logs from the blower on that motor? Where's any logs. Any track times? Where's Billy Mays when you need him? He could push this product and maybe have folks believing that it actually does what the manufacturer says, but eventually it's going to be time to put up or shut up. One thing I can say is after over "100k" has been spent on a car Jeff better put down some mid 8 second passes with ease, but you know where my money will be when it comes to betting time.
When my neighbors' A/C went out the other day, he said they were trying to sell him a heat pump. I couldn't for the life of me understand how a Kenne Bell had anything to do with his A/C.
Last edited by BLOWNBLUEZ06; Jul 1, 2009 at 08:27 AM.
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Okinawa Japan
Lol i never said roots were better you need to reread what i said. It is just unfair to compare a way overdriven roots charger to a twin screw that is the right size for the setup like you did.
The origonal poster asked if one was much better then the other. And you tried to give him proof by showing garbage for an example. Your second link you posted to "teach" me is good but still is not ideal because KB is going to post the results which will make their blower looks the best. If that test was done by a roots blower company the results on the two 1.5l blowers would have looked much different.
Get off your high horse and your problems that you have with roots blowers and try to help someone and give them honest feedback. That will help him get the best answer.
The origonal poster asked if one was much better then the other. And you tried to give him proof by showing garbage for an example. Your second link you posted to "teach" me is good but still is not ideal because KB is going to post the results which will make their blower looks the best. If that test was done by a roots blower company the results on the two 1.5l blowers would have looked much different.
Get off your high horse and your problems that you have with roots blowers and try to help someone and give them honest feedback. That will help him get the best answer.