Fireball Outlaw Drag Radial Rebuild Thread
10-13-2011, 03:57 PM
#1784
Originally Posted by Shawn @ VA Speed;
what Brian thought was a head gasket leak was probably more than likely a hairline crack in the cylinder head. It was seeping water into the one cylinder,we'll never know exactly what it was now.
with 3 sparkplug tips burned off, a hole burned through one combustion chamber and cracked around the valve seat,it's pretty clear the timing spiked and caused severe detonation in the engine. The detonation cracked the head along the bolt holes and lifted the head.
with 3 sparkplug tips burned off, a hole burned through one combustion chamber and cracked around the valve seat,it's pretty clear the timing spiked and caused severe detonation in the engine. The detonation cracked the head along the bolt holes and lifted the head.
EDIT: It was in this thread, post 1141:
I know how you feel. We had a problem with the FAST XFI and XIM setup with LS truck coils that have a 5ms dwell time built in firing before they are suppose to. It added timing in the motor under boost and fried 3 pistons. We at least figured out the problem so I hope we have it fixed when we get the motor back from Kurt. Sorry to hear about your mishap. It sucks when it happens the first time out.
Originally Posted by Shawn @ VA Speed;
as far as a stronger seal-there isn't one except for welding the heads to the block.. not sure how you figured out how it is set up as nobody else really knows. The testing was done over a five year period of trial and error on my 2000+ hp sbc. As noted above,the gasket didn't fail,the head cracked and lifted due to severe detonation.
You guys talk about it quite a bit on here and the bullet. I'm just wondering how you came to determine how your setup is perfect? I can't see re O ringing the heads and a block two thousand times to find the right location. Then, playing with 50 different sets of head gaskets. I'm guessing you found a combination that works and went with it? Have you tested it through FEA or something similar? Last edited by Beaflag VonRathburg; 10-13-2011 at 04:03 PM.
10-13-2011, 04:16 PM
#1785
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seems that every other high hp turbo car has had this issue and nobody has found a root cause, but it seems to be alleviated once going with a distributor.
10-13-2011, 05:02 PM
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that is also bugging me. it quit logging 3.8seconds into spoolup. I can't find any electrical reason for that to have happened either...can't say if it was related or coincidental 
10-13-2011, 05:35 PM
#1788
With my limited knowledge and experience with this subject, all I can say is that head looked like the motor said get the f off me and the head resisted until it finally cracked.
That's some pretty badass carnage and stresspoint research. I guess when you're going as fast as you guys are, with as much power as you're making, it's always a game of over engineering the next weekest link in the power/drivetrain setup.
Keep your head up Brian, you should be proud of what you've put together and done.
That's some pretty badass carnage and stresspoint research. I guess when you're going as fast as you guys are, with as much power as you're making, it's always a game of over engineering the next weekest link in the power/drivetrain setup.
Keep your head up Brian, you should be proud of what you've put together and done.
10-13-2011, 05:57 PM
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What do you think caused the timing to spike? With the cam / crank sync setup properly, and the crank trigger it seems odd. Was there a mechanical fault in the crank trigger being installed off, too much timing in the tune, BS3 issue? The only other similar issue I've seen recently was the 1st gen LSx / Procharger camaro that Kurt Urban put together. They had a timing issue that burnt three pistons. I remember him posting what it was, but I can't find it right now for the life of me.
EDIT: It was in this thread, post 1141:
You guys talk about it quite a bit on here and the bullet. I'm just wondering how you came to determine how your setup is perfect? I can't see re O ringing the heads and a block two thousand times to find the right location. Then, playing with 50 different sets of head gaskets. I'm guessing you found a combination that works and went with it? Have you tested it through FEA or something similar?
EDIT: It was in this thread, post 1141:
You guys talk about it quite a bit on here and the bullet. I'm just wondering how you came to determine how your setup is perfect? I can't see re O ringing the heads and a block two thousand times to find the right location. Then, playing with 50 different sets of head gaskets. I'm guessing you found a combination that works and went with it? Have you tested it through FEA or something similar?not really sure why it even matters about the head gaskets. It pretty clear in this case that the head gasket didn't fail as a head gasket doesn't cause the outside of the head to crack or burn a hole in the opposite head's combustion chamber
10-13-2011, 06:14 PM
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Things like this would drive me nuts. I'm glad I don't have the wallet to compete in heads up racing. I can't imagine putting a new top end on without knowing what actually caused it! I hope a distributor setup fixes your issues.
10-13-2011, 06:52 PM
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update...I just found the ******' culprit...crank trigger hit the sensor...ultimately sending everythign out of whack...must've been a tad bit of flex in the system or something
10-13-2011, 08:00 PM
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well...mine hit hard enough to crack the magnetic element...
I'm not so sure its the sensor moving as much as its the wheel expanding due to inertial forces
I'm not so sure its the sensor moving as much as its the wheel expanding due to inertial forces
10-13-2011, 08:50 PM
#1795
I probably did try 50 different sets of heads gaskets and went through 3 sets of heads working on it.
not really sure why it even matters about the head gaskets. It pretty clear in this case that the head gasket didn't fail as a head gasket doesn't cause the outside of the head to crack or burn a hole in the opposite head's combustion chamber
not really sure why it even matters about the head gaskets. It pretty clear in this case that the head gasket didn't fail as a head gasket doesn't cause the outside of the head to crack or burn a hole in the opposite head's combustion chamber
With a sleeved block you're limited to ring location. That seems relatively static and the location of the ring in the head has to correlate to a degree with the ring in the block. Gasket thickness seems the one item that has the most variance other than ring depth / protrusion. I'm simply wondering how you came to determine the thickness. I'm not trying to play a numbers game and figure out your secrets. Hell, my car hasn't run in near 4.5 years.
Wow, I was on the right track. I didn't think the coils would cause something like that. I think they'd put out too little spark or spark at the wrong time caused by a cam / crank fault before they went over.
10-13-2011, 09:05 PM
#1797
BTW: I've been following your build and I'm thoroughly impressed with all you have done with it!
10-13-2011, 09:22 PM
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10-14-2011, 04:53 AM
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bs3's
I'm gonna draw it up in cad at some point and do a fea on it to see how much it grows at rpm. I'm betting that has something to do with it.
I'm gonna draw it up in cad at some point and do a fea on it to see how much it grows at rpm. I'm betting that has something to do with it.
10-14-2011, 07:17 AM
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I'm not sure if he still is, but isn't Mark Koehler still on coils? "2011 Best 1/4 7.47@185--Best 1/8th 4.86@151" I think Steve Turley was before he sold his car as well? "7.44@198.56mph 3365lbs. 1/8 4.88@153.00mph 3365lbs" Mike Brown is on a distributor now as I'm sure you're aware of. I think the coils are nearing the end of their ability, but I don't think saying every car has issues with them is accurate. This is a good read on coils: http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm
It did vent combustion like a blow torch right through the two chambers when the head lifted. I'm guessing a timing over run will do that to anything, but like I said I've been researching your setup.
With a sleeved block you're limited to ring location. That seems relatively static and the location of the ring in the head has to correlate to a degree with the ring in the block. Gasket thickness seems the one item that has the most variance other than ring depth / protrusion. I'm simply wondering how you came to determine the thickness. I'm not trying to play a numbers game and figure out your secrets. Hell, my car hasn't run in near 4.5 years.
Wow, I was on the right track. I didn't think the coils would cause something like that. I think they'd put out too little spark or spark at the wrong time caused by a cam / crank fault before they went over.
It did vent combustion like a blow torch right through the two chambers when the head lifted. I'm guessing a timing over run will do that to anything, but like I said I've been researching your setup.
With a sleeved block you're limited to ring location. That seems relatively static and the location of the ring in the head has to correlate to a degree with the ring in the block. Gasket thickness seems the one item that has the most variance other than ring depth / protrusion. I'm simply wondering how you came to determine the thickness. I'm not trying to play a numbers game and figure out your secrets. Hell, my car hasn't run in near 4.5 years.
Wow, I was on the right track. I didn't think the coils would cause something like that. I think they'd put out too little spark or spark at the wrong time caused by a cam / crank fault before they went over.
I'm not going to tell you how i arrived at a conclusion, understanding how it works makes it much easier for others to copy. For over 5 years I tryed various ring locations,ring depths, and gasket thicknesses. All I can tell you that after all of that,this has been the most fullproof setup. The gasket can't control that the head cracks and lifts from the deck.