Best method for holding down heads??
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 3
From: Rochester, NY
Best method for holding down heads?? So I have a set of 317 6L truck heads I'm going to be switching over to. I have a set of ARP head studs and MLS gaskets. I want to know the best way to hold these suckers down. What torque values have you been going to? Are you coating the gaskets with anything? Use lube on the studs? Or oil maybe? Any little tricks that may help me would be appreciated!
FWIW I've been running untouched 241s for 4 seasons on 15psi and 30k+miles and they're finally starting to push a lil water. These are fastened with ARP bolts NOT studs. Since I need to take them off anyways I'm switching to my 317s that have been sitting here for a year now and using studs...
And yes I do realize that stock casting heads have their limitations, just want to do what I can to hold them down...
Thanks,
Adam
FWIW I've been running untouched 241s for 4 seasons on 15psi and 30k+miles and they're finally starting to push a lil water. These are fastened with ARP bolts NOT studs. Since I need to take them off anyways I'm switching to my 317s that have been sitting here for a year now and using studs...
And yes I do realize that stock casting heads have their limitations, just want to do what I can to hold them down...
Thanks,
Adam
Studs with MLS gasket should do the trick. Make sure you blow out all the holes in the block with compressed air. Water does not compress and will crack aluminum when installing the studs. I used ARP's moly lube when I installed my studs. You can use 30w oil too, they just call for a higher TQ spec VS the ARP lube.
At your boost level, I would like to add tuning for no detonation to the mix. I have been running 18psi for quite some time with no issues and know others doing the same. If you're building boost earlier than those of us with centrifugals, it might contribute to the equation.
Do yourself a favoer and grab some ARP 2000 head studs torque them to 100ftlbs. It will help ALOT when pushing more than 18lbs. Up to that point the standard ARP head studs will hold for the most part, but as the rule is you will usually end up doing or going for more power is why I suggest this to you. GL!
tighten the studs in 3 diff values(kind of like 40, 60, 80), rather than all the way the first time, and use the moly stuff-coat both sides of the washer also, and the bottom of the nut-i used the GM gaskets, but i think some guys use the 5 layer ones-like said, the tune has a lot to do with it also
tighten the studs in 3 diff values(kind of like 40, 60, 80), rather than all the way the first time, and use the moly stuff-coat both sides of the washer also, and the bottom of the nut-i used the GM gaskets, but i think some guys use the 5 layer ones-like said, the tune has a lot to do with it also
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This might sound kinda cheesy but I actually read it in Hot Rod years ago. Put a light coat of spray enamel on the gaskets and put them together while its still tacky. The only head gasket problem ive had in the past 15 years it taking them off. You need a huge pry bar and it separates the gasket upon removal. Its seemed to work so far. I run the cheapest gaskets i could find, stock bolts, 15psi and a 50 shot of spray....3 years later and no issues.
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Here are my tips that work so far:
1. Make sure all surfaces are VERY clean with brake cleaner. No build up of anykind.
2. Put on gloves before you open the head gaskets and set them/heads down with gloves.
3. Torque in order using 3 passes as mentioned earlier w/ ARP lube (maybe 25-50-75)
4. Heat cycle it. Let them sit over night. Make another pass at 80ft pounds in the morning. (SKip this step if the studs have been used before and just tq them to 80 on the final pass.
5. Keep tune conservative on the timing. Use race gas if you plan on beating on it in the heat.
1. Make sure all surfaces are VERY clean with brake cleaner. No build up of anykind.
2. Put on gloves before you open the head gaskets and set them/heads down with gloves.
3. Torque in order using 3 passes as mentioned earlier w/ ARP lube (maybe 25-50-75)
4. Heat cycle it. Let them sit over night. Make another pass at 80ft pounds in the morning. (SKip this step if the studs have been used before and just tq them to 80 on the final pass.
5. Keep tune conservative on the timing. Use race gas if you plan on beating on it in the heat.
Wouldnt you want the gasket to stick to the surfaces? The 6.0 I took apart the factory gasket fell out. So instead of worrying so much about the clamping pressure, which is usually sufficient, why not deal with the surface and the sealing of the gasket? I would think one would want them glued on if possible. The slippery teflon coated gaskets (or whatever they are made of) seems like it would just ask to not seal. And then the head and deack surface are shiny and smooth. I rough mine up with some sand paper. Smooth surfaces leak.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 3
From: Rochester, NY
Any idea on the approx cost of oring'ing? I assume you don't HAVE to do a receiver groove in the block right? If it's not TOO much (I'm only working 14 hrs a week right now, in school full time) and I can just oring the heads then I may go that route...
How much power are you trying to make?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 3
From: Rochester, NY
As much as I can without lifting the heads... lol.
I've got a rear mount setup right now that makes 650rwhp on 15psi. The exhaust and intake piping are quite restrictive at this point. If I still have the car over winter I'm going to be moving the turbo up front which would get rid of a lot of the restrictions and should make much more power at the same boost level. Motor is a forged 370 9.5:1
I've got a rear mount setup right now that makes 650rwhp on 15psi. The exhaust and intake piping are quite restrictive at this point. If I still have the car over winter I'm going to be moving the turbo up front which would get rid of a lot of the restrictions and should make much more power at the same boost level. Motor is a forged 370 9.5:1
Double o-ring + copper is for 1500+
a good MLS + precision finished surfaces are fine to 1000-1100 with a thick head, 6 bolt will buy you time and power. The block & head surface have to be perfect for the MLS to work in a high boost motor.
a good MLS + precision finished surfaces are fine to 1000-1100 with a thick head, 6 bolt will buy you time and power. The block & head surface have to be perfect for the MLS to work in a high boost motor.
