Poor man's method to better belt wrap on an fbody
I dont think the factory idler should be used(It's starting to dig into the back side of the belt after 5 mins of run time. Upgraded to Ad244 alternator also
Here some more pics
Here some more pics
Last edited by pdasterly; Jan 20, 2011 at 05:37 PM.
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
Likes: 2
From: Savannah, GA
Wow dude, no wonder! Your alignment is WAY off on your pulley. However much you counterbored the J bracket, you shoulda added that much onto the 1.25" dimension that you had your standoff machined down.. Or just shoulda not messed with the bracket at all.
In other words, ***I'm not responsible if you F things up using the dimensions that worked for me!*** LOL!!!
Last edited by pdasterly; Jan 20, 2011 at 08:23 PM.
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
Likes: 2
From: Savannah, GA
https://ls1tech.com/forums/12402970-post29.html
As you can see, it works as designed if you do it as designed.
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
Likes: 2
From: Savannah, GA
Just FYI pdasterly, even when you get a wider idler, if you only had 1.25" off the end of your standoff machined down, I can guarantee you that you will have to have more of it machined down. Just a heads up... You need 1.25" past the edge of the back side of the bracket. Since some of your 1.25" is actually resting inside your bracket because you counterbored yours, however much your standoff is penetrating into the bracket, you will have to compensate for it by machining down your standoff further. You dont have 1.25 past the edge of the bracket, that is why your stock idler didnt line up, and thats why if you get a wider idler it wont fit. If you modify one part of the design, you must compensate for it everywhere.
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No way the factory idler will fit 8-rib belt, your measurement were way off period, the procharger idler should have been used. In the first pic the gold colored spacer is the washer that I added, everything fits tight, the idler is too small(it needs more lip). You cant see from pic but idler was aligned with the belt in place, I know cause I removed several (about 5) times to get correct length washer. Car sounds good on the other side of things, good write up but needs to be revised. Its not the standoff but the actual idler. I think Im gonna just get the procharger idler and that should solve problem. My old 6-rib idler is closer in size but the lips needs to be machined off. Idler needs to be about 1.5" wide, does anyone know if a vortech idler uses the same mounting as the factory idler or procharger idler? Also did some searching, This looks perfect
In other words, ***I'm not responsible if you F things up using the dimensions that worked for me!*** LOL!!!
In other words, ***I'm not responsible if you F things up using the dimensions that worked for me!*** LOL!!!
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
Likes: 2
From: Savannah, GA
I did a search on that Vortech pulley. Apparently, they are prone to failure VERY often. Check out this thread. Good news, appears they use a 2203 bearing, which has a 17mm ID (same as procharger pullies ID), and will fit your machined standoff.
If you get the vortech pulley, I'd recommend changing the bearings in it from the start. If you rev to 6500rpm, with a 7.65 crank pulley, you will be spinning that 2.5" idler 19,890rpm. So get a bearing (or bearings-not sure if it uses 1 or 2) that can handle the rpm.
Not that procharger is a TON better because I see procharger bearings fail too. I suspect it is because they incorrectly match their bearings as well. The only bearings I have taken out of a procharger idler were out of a used one, so I dont know if the bearings in there had already been replaced or not, but the bearings I took out were only rated at 14,000 rpm. Since the procharger bearings are 6003's, when the procharger bearings fail, I'd replace them with these.
One thing you gotta watch out for on bearings is the brand. Sure, you can get cheap bearings that have a good rpm spec for a couple dollars, but cheaply made bearings are no better than a quality bearing thats not rated correctly for the job. Infact, the cheapo bearings would probably be worse.
If you get the vortech pulley, I'd recommend changing the bearings in it from the start. If you rev to 6500rpm, with a 7.65 crank pulley, you will be spinning that 2.5" idler 19,890rpm. So get a bearing (or bearings-not sure if it uses 1 or 2) that can handle the rpm.
Not that procharger is a TON better because I see procharger bearings fail too. I suspect it is because they incorrectly match their bearings as well. The only bearings I have taken out of a procharger idler were out of a used one, so I dont know if the bearings in there had already been replaced or not, but the bearings I took out were only rated at 14,000 rpm. Since the procharger bearings are 6003's, when the procharger bearings fail, I'd replace them with these.
One thing you gotta watch out for on bearings is the brand. Sure, you can get cheap bearings that have a good rpm spec for a couple dollars, but cheaply made bearings are no better than a quality bearing thats not rated correctly for the job. Infact, the cheapo bearings would probably be worse.
I search and found same thing, that pulley dosent last very long, vortech lists differant pullies on their website. Im really leaning towards taking my 6-rib idler and having the lips machined off if that dosent pan out I searched through dayco catalog part number (89165 ) is what I found, can some double check catalog
Just weighing my options, Damn it sucks to be cheap
Again Chevy chads specs are good, I just feel the factory idler is not wide enough. If you have a procharger then this mod is a must unless you have aster's or sdce tensioner. I wanted to do asters but the price didnt sit well with me
Just weighing my options, Damn it sucks to be cheap
Again Chevy chads specs are good, I just feel the factory idler is not wide enough. If you have a procharger then this mod is a must unless you have aster's or sdce tensioner. I wanted to do asters but the price didnt sit well with me
Pdasterly: You can not change the distance between the block and the bracket without causing problems. By making the bolt hole larger allowing the stand off to slip into the bracket the stand off is effectively too short, an entirely new stand off made longer by the same amount the shaft now enters the bracket would be required to keep the bracket alignment correct. You basically potentially lost .4" if you did not increase the counter bore depth on the reverse side and are sliding the the standoff all the way through the hole. That is a significant change in alignment and will cause belt problems, and weakens the other mounting points as the geometry for their mating surfaces are way off.
This angling of the bracket is also causing the belt to ride harder on the sharper edge of that pulley than the side closest the bracket with the rolled edge.
This angling of the bracket is also causing the belt to ride harder on the sharper edge of that pulley than the side closest the bracket with the rolled edge.
Pdasterly: You can not change the distance between the block and the bracket without causing problems. By making the bolt hole larger allowing the stand off to slip into the bracket the stand off is effectively too short, an entirely new stand off made longer by the same amount the shaft now enters the bracket would be required to keep the bracket alignment correct. You basically potentially lost .4" if you did not increase the counter bore depth on the reverse side and are sliding the the standoff all the way through the hole. That is a significant change in alignment and will cause belt problems, and weakens the other mounting points as the geometry for their mating surfaces are way off.
This angling of the bracket is also causing the belt to ride harder on the sharper edge of that pulley than the side closest the bracket with the rolled edge.
This angling of the bracket is also causing the belt to ride harder on the sharper edge of that pulley than the side closest the bracket with the rolled edge.
Last edited by pdasterly; Jan 21, 2011 at 11:25 AM.
pdasterly,
You counterbored the bracket, so you need to make up for that on the bracket side of the standoff, not the motor side. Notice that the thickness of the gold washer you have on the motor side is equal to the overhang of the belt on the pulley? By counterboring the bracket, you effectively shifted everything over towards the bracket. If you removed the thick gold washer on the motor side, and put washers back in the bored out part of the bracket, it would all shift back into place.
You counterbored the bracket, so you need to make up for that on the bracket side of the standoff, not the motor side. Notice that the thickness of the gold washer you have on the motor side is equal to the overhang of the belt on the pulley? By counterboring the bracket, you effectively shifted everything over towards the bracket. If you removed the thick gold washer on the motor side, and put washers back in the bored out part of the bracket, it would all shift back into place.
I searched through dayco catalog part number (89165 ) is what I found, can some double check catalog
Thanks headed to napa parts now, I think a silverado 6.6 turbo diesel will work(specs are on) from dayco catalog
Also in that picture you showed it appears that the pulley is not sitting truly perpendicular, but instead is riding at an angle. It also appears the bracket is not truely square when compared to the stand off angle in the image. It might just be a trick of the angle of the photo, but it does not look right.
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
Likes: 2
From: Savannah, GA
I search and found same thing, that pulley dosent last very long, vortech lists differant pullies on their website. Im really leaning towards taking my 6-rib idler and having the lips machined off if that dosent pan out I searched through dayco catalog part number (89165 ) is what I found, can some double check catalog
Just weighing my options, Damn it sucks to be cheap
Again Chevy chads specs are good, I just feel the factory idler is not wide enough. If you have a procharger then this mod is a must unless you have aster's or sdce tensioner. I wanted to do asters but the price didnt sit well with me
Just weighing my options, Damn it sucks to be cheap
Again Chevy chads specs are good, I just feel the factory idler is not wide enough. If you have a procharger then this mod is a must unless you have aster's or sdce tensioner. I wanted to do asters but the price didnt sit well with me
ID: 10.15mm (this is smaller than the 17mm this mod was made for)
OD: 76mm (this is 2.99" same as the stock fbody idler)
Width: 30mm (this is approximately the same width as the stock fbody idler)
You swear the stock fbody idler wont work for you, then you turn around and spec out a pulley thats almost identical in OD and width, but has a worse ID. I dont get it man..