did your machine shop cut a receiver groove for the oring? I was talking to my machinist and he said he wants to oring the block but not cut a receiver groove in the head? I thought that was standard to cut the receiver groove? Can anybody enlighten me.

 

i never had my heads cut for a reciver groove and i couldn't be happier !

i had so many heads come and go on this shortblock its not funny. and i used both mls and graphite gaskets without any issues.

 

I though if you oringed your block you had to run copper gaskets? Can someone explan what all is needed to oring your block?

 

ok so you had orings machined into the block with these diffrent head gaskets? Is that how I am reading it?

 

Susbscribing.

I am doing recievers in the head, o-ring in the block with copper gaskets, this is what Ken black from KB and my machine shop recomended for high HP cars, and what all the high HP cars I know of are doing. I'd like to know how an o-ring works with a graphite gasket? And what the point is of not doing a reciever if you have an o-ring, i've heard this before though using MLS gaskets but I still don't see it better than a o-ring, copper and reciever...

 

I was under the impresson the blocks deck was cut for the copper wire. Then the wire cut into the graphite gasket. I may be wrong though.

 

You mean copper gasket, thought the wire was stainless? I would have thought it would cut right through graphite, but maybe it's supposed too, IDK...

 

You are probably right. I have only seen it done once.

 

Subscribing!

 

You use a steel wire and a copper gasket with a reciever groove in the head. This way the steel wire will push the copper gasket into the reciever groove in the head and make the seal.

 

exactly

it does work with mls and graphite too but the works the best with copper. all the oring does is hold the gasket in place, with no o ring its held there simply by clamping force between to flat smooth surfaces. When you add the oring, that surface is actually taking a bite in the gasket resulting in much more grip on the gasket by the block and head.

 

So do we need a reciever groove, also how does va speed do their double oring

 

well now that I think about it what carsandwomen said about how the oring actually functions in order to take full advantage of the oring than the optimal thing to do would be put the receiver grove in the head as the gasket would saddle around the oring instead of just pushing against it. Basically trapping or locking the gasket in the groove in the head.

 

I typically thought that oring "cut" into the head though.

 

honestly thats what I thought as well. So are the gaskets are still used to seal the cylinders or are the gasket used only for sealing the water jackets?

 

don't quote me on this , but if i recall correctly the process begins with cutting an oring groove in the block around the cylinder bore ( i think it was something like 0.015" or 0.020" deep) and then a stainless steel wire with a thickness of 0.030" is shoved into that groove to make the "o-ring" , so what happens is that you have about 0.015" or 0.010" of the wire sticking out past the block surface . up to here you have just oringed the block and this is where some people stop the process.

now if you want to oring the head , you cut a round groove around the combustion chamber that is iexactly the same size and location as the the groove on the block, this way when the head is mated to the block , the wire part that is sticking out should tuck right into the head oring groove.

in essence when you do the full process or just the block what you are doing is pinching the gasket in place right where the wire touches the gasket , this helps in two ways : the gasket stays put , and the area being pinched can withstand more cylinder pressure due to the concentration of force at that point ( think of blowing ait between your thumb and index finger when they are touching each other lightly vs. blowing with them tightly sqweezed )


now there are two theories to process :

the first being not putting a reciver groove will actually cause more "pinch" on the gasket and will allow you to run any head you want ( no need to send the head to the machine shop every time you get a new head or need to resurface). further more ( in my opinion ) , this will allow you to use a regular grapite ( they have a steel fire ring that the oring contacts, not the graphite itself) or mls steel gaskets since the pinch area is not subject to that much deforming .

the second is putting a reciver groove in the head will positivly lock the headgasket in place by pushing the gasket surface into the reciver groove , yet still maintaining a higher clamping load accross the entire head / block surface compared to the method above . the draw back (if you can call it a draw back) is that you have to run copper gaskets due to them being more conforming ( read soft) that other types of gaskets . plus ( and i am not really sure of this ) you can't run regular gaskets when you do this method .

hope this helps

 

there are two orings...one on the head and one on the block

 

did they do a double receiver groove in your heads?

 

So they do an o-ring around the combustion chamber of a certain diameter and then an o-ring around the cylinder in a different diameter?

 

Would like to know more info as well. Please elaborate if you have a different idea than already mentioned.

BTW, if some regular guy (me) needs to have one of these processes done, could he just walk into his local engine machine shop and say "Oring my block" and assume this is a pretty common practice?