Benefits of Headers?
03-30-2010, 02:32 AM
#1
Staging Lane
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Benefits of Headers? I am planning to do some mods in the near future on my '05 coupe with a manual trans. My mods are basically a P1SC with a 4.25 pulley and a Cobalt SS 2bar MAP. I am wanting to know the benefits of adding long tubes. Is it the same as an N/A car? Or does it just make the stress on the motor less because of the loss in boost, ie no gains in power but same power with less boost pressure? Would I benefit more from longtubes or should I do a boost a pump, bigger injectors, valve springs and a smaller pulley all while switching to E85? I think switching to E85 with all the required mods will be a little more $ with tuning but I will see a major improvement in power. Longtubes will give me more sound, less stress on the motor and maybe a small increase in power. If there is an increase in power, how much did you gain?
03-30-2010, 06:01 AM
#2
just switching to E85 without any other changes won't really increase your power. it allows you to turn up the boost and make more power, but if you drive the car often, your MPG will drop dramatically.
03-30-2010, 07:22 PM
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03-30-2010, 07:30 PM
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Staging Lane
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Yeah I know a blower cam and longtubes will help me alot. I would do a big nasty blower cam not a tiny one anyways, haha. But, the addition of a cam will force me to upgrade my fuel system anyways. As a result I would switch to E85 regardless. I am working on a budget. I am sorry I forgot to mention this in my original post. If I wanted to do everything (cam, pushrods, springs, pulley, 1200hp return style fuel system, LT's, and E85) I would but I can't right now. Just trying to make a step towards that goal but I don't know which I should start with first. I do know I need more fuel(injectors at 98%) but need to get the air out also. I just was asking opinions of what each of you would do and what the most beneficial is.
03-30-2010, 07:44 PM
#7
This is completely wrong. E85 allows you to advance timing resulting in an increase in power. Two identical cars with the same setup, one on gas and one on E85, the E85 car will make a significant amount more power especially on an FI car. Mileage does decrease because stoich is about 30% richer than gas. This is not that big of a deal for me, I have a DD and I already average 20mpg anyways. This is not the first car I have ran on E85, I know a thing or two about corn juice we have alot of it in Indiana.
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03-30-2010, 09:01 PM
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Actually, the fuel makes a difference b/c it gives you the ability to add timing. Also, the fuel gives lower IAT's resulting in more power, so the pure cooling effect of ethanol is beneficial. It is kind of stupid to be splitting hairs like this. I think you know what I meant, there is no need for elementary posts like this. It really gets annoying. Also, why would I do E85 without any changes to the tune? If I did that my motor would not be running long, as I would be 30% too lean. That would be like running a gas car in closed loop at 19:1, lol. Finally, refer to my first post. I mentioned supporting mods and tuning as part of switching to E85.
Last edited by DaytonaFIC6; 03-30-2010 at 09:16 PM.
03-30-2010, 09:14 PM
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How many E85 cars have you owned? Is there even E85 in Arizona? Do a little research. Although E85 has less energy potential than gasoline in the same volume, you use more in the combustion process and it carries it's own atom of oxygen in. We all know lots of oxygen is good for power. As far as IAT's being lower, you are right it is a result of the combustion process. Think about what you said for a minute. If the combustion process is cooler, then the engine makes less heat resulting in lower underhood temps. Lower underhood temps would then result in lower IAT's, ie less heatsoak and even further advanced timing than gas.
03-30-2010, 09:38 PM
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If your so knowledgeable about fuel types how do you not know something as simple as headers being a huge benefit to a car with a blower? Take your own advice and do a little research.
03-30-2010, 09:54 PM
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I have searched for answers and no one seems to be able to give me a straight answer. I know LT's are beneficial for any LS car. What I did not know is if the addition of LT's without a drop in pulley size would actually hurt power numbers. Because, the boost would actually drop. Besides the thread is about which is a better value and what would you do first? Do you have anything knowledgeable to contribute?
03-30-2010, 10:24 PM
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Headers are not going to hurt your numbers only help.
I would buy headers, valve springs, smaller pulley, boostapump, 60lb injectors and meth kit. Your stock motor will get all it wants. I really doubt a single walbro could keep up with e85 very well even with a boostapump.
I would buy headers, valve springs, smaller pulley, boostapump, 60lb injectors and meth kit. Your stock motor will get all it wants. I really doubt a single walbro could keep up with e85 very well even with a boostapump.
03-30-2010, 10:31 PM
#14
How many E85 cars have you owned? Is there even E85 in Arizona? Do a little research. Although E85 has less energy potential than gasoline in the same volume, you use more in the combustion process and it carries it's own atom of oxygen in. We all know lots of oxygen is good for power. As far as IAT's being lower, you are right it is a result of the combustion process. Think about what you said for a minute. If the combustion process is cooler, then the engine makes less heat resulting in lower underhood temps. Lower underhood temps would then result in lower IAT's, ie less heatsoak and even further advanced timing than gas.
03-30-2010, 10:35 PM
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Headers are going to help free up more power on a blower car then an NA car. There is an old issue of GMHTP where they put LT's on their P1SC GTO and gain 50+ RWHP.
03-30-2010, 11:47 PM
#16
Actually, the fuel makes a difference b/c it gives you the ability to add timing. Also, the fuel gives lower IAT's resulting in more power, so the pure cooling effect of ethanol is beneficial. It is kind of stupid to be splitting hairs like this. I think you know what I meant, there is no need for elementary posts like this. It really gets annoying. Also, why would I do E85 without any changes to the tune? If I did that my motor would not be running long, as I would be 30% too lean. That would be like running a gas car in closed loop at 19:1, lol. Finally, refer to my first post. I mentioned supporting mods and tuning as part of switching to E85.
Then after anyone gave you advice or commented, you discredited them, and tugged on your own knowledge *****. You should make threads full of your wealth of knowledge for all of us to learn by, so we can ASK YOU the questions. You seem to know it all already.
03-31-2010, 12:19 AM
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Headers are not going to hurt your numbers only help.
I would buy headers, valve springs, smaller pulley, boostapump, 60lb injectors and meth kit. Your stock motor will get all it wants. I really doubt a single walbro could keep up with e85 very well even with a boostapump.
I would buy headers, valve springs, smaller pulley, boostapump, 60lb injectors and meth kit. Your stock motor will get all it wants. I really doubt a single walbro could keep up with e85 very well even with a boostapump.
03-31-2010, 12:26 AM
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That is what the guy posted....and you said he is completly wrong. Do you see a trend in your thread? You asked a REALLY basic question that anyone with half an automotive brain could answer.
Then after anyone gave you advice or commented, you discredited them, and tugged on your own knowledge *****. You should make threads full of your wealth of knowledge for all of us to learn by, so we can ASK YOU the questions. You seem to know it all already.
Then after anyone gave you advice or commented, you discredited them, and tugged on your own knowledge *****. You should make threads full of your wealth of knowledge for all of us to learn by, so we can ASK YOU the questions. You seem to know it all already.
03-31-2010, 06:08 AM
#19
Actually, the fuel makes a difference b/c it gives you the ability to add timing. Also, the fuel gives lower IAT's resulting in more power, so the pure cooling effect of ethanol is beneficial. It is kind of stupid to be splitting hairs like this. I think you know what I meant, there is no need for elementary posts like this. It really gets annoying. Also, why would I do E85 without any changes to the tune? If I did that my motor would not be running long, as I would be 30% too lean. That would be like running a gas car in closed loop at 19:1, lol. Finally, refer to my first post. I mentioned supporting mods and tuning as part of switching to E85.
as for the headers, I agree that they will significantly help your #'s with boost. just don't go too big on the primary tubes
03-31-2010, 02:42 PM
#20
Neither one of you answered my question in the original post though. I admit I was not sure about the headers. I know it seems relatively simple but this is my first FI car. Therefore, I needed a little guidance not a big discussion on E85. Nowhere in my original post did I say anything about E85 being god and gas sucks. I happen to be a fan of it and have seen first hand the benefits of it. Not all will agree. Would you like to answer the question of my original post?
Buy headers. They will help.