1,738 HP - 424ci RHS & 106mm Turbo
11-03-2010, 09:14 PM
#45
Props to all of ya def nice setup.... lot of haters on rear mount set ups.. but back in the early turbo days smokey did a rear mount setup that was crazy and it worked.. cant wait to see where it takes this setup and more mile/landspeed cars.....
11-27-2010, 08:11 AM
#50
10 second playa
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What made you decide to go with Trick Flow cathedral port 235cc heads?
Yes, those are good heads, but don't seem to be up the the level of the rest of the built.
I realize it is forced induction and all, but those ports have to be artificially raising your boost?
I would have thought an LS7 port as a minimum, with a killer 6 bolt head from someone like ETP/PIS/MAST. Just an inline valve combo. Even GMPP own after market heads?
I can't imagine the reason was budget?
Beautiful car and setup though, congrats on the performance!
Yes, those are good heads, but don't seem to be up the the level of the rest of the built.
I realize it is forced induction and all, but those ports have to be artificially raising your boost?
I would have thought an LS7 port as a minimum, with a killer 6 bolt head from someone like ETP/PIS/MAST. Just an inline valve combo. Even GMPP own after market heads?
I can't imagine the reason was budget?
Beautiful car and setup though, congrats on the performance!
11-27-2010, 06:44 PM
#52
10 Second Club
Just an observation on rear mounts. It seems that the higher HP the build is the less detrimental the distance from engine to turbo is, to a point where it may be not at all. I assume it is because of the higher exhaust velocity.
11-28-2010, 09:49 AM
#54
The distance of the turbo from the motor has more to do with lag than peak power. A more accurate observation here would be that the longer the distance of the race, the less that it matters if you are just shooting for top speed. This setup would get to the end of the mile quicker with the turbo in the front but MPH would likely be the same.
11-28-2010, 10:35 AM
#55
10 Second Club
First I'm not claiming to be an expert but I have noticed more and more high HP builds using rear mounts that seem to be running right with front mounts. The smaller motors with smaller turbos have heat retention problems because the air cannot hold the heat all the way to the rear without cooling some causing lag and power issues. A big cube high flowing motor would get the exhaust to the turbo so quickly and with such volume that it effectively negates this effect. Please don't beat me up too badly on this because like I stated, "It's just an observation" and this is my take on why the big build rear mounts don't seem to confront distance issues from motor to turbo like the smaller builds. Paul major's car and this one here seem to not have any compromises even though they are rear mounts. Also I've seen a couple other big dogs, Mustang's etc. that seem to be popping up. Do you guys agree that the more HP the build has the less of an issue it becomes to the point where there is no difference between front or rear mount or do you still believe a front mount would make more power?
11-28-2010, 11:20 AM
#56
First I'm not claiming to be an expert but I have noticed more and more high HP builds using rear mounts that seem to be running right with front mounts. The smaller motors with smaller turbos have heat retention problems because the air cannot hold the heat all the way to the rear without cooling some causing lag and power issues. A big cube high flowing motor would get the exhaust to the turbo so quickly and with such volume that it effectively negates this effect. Please don't beat me up too badly on this because like I stated, "It's just an observation" and this is my take on why the big build rear mounts don't seem to confront distance issues from motor to turbo like the smaller builds. Paul major's car and this one here seem to not have any compromises even though they are rear mounts. Also I've seen a couple other big dogs, Mustang's etc. that seem to be popping up. Do you guys agree that the more HP the build has the less of an issue it becomes to the point where there is no difference between front or rear mount or do you still believe a front mount would make more power?
Major had rear mounts and had tranny issues because of how long it took to get up on boost.
11-28-2010, 02:17 PM
#57
10 Second Club
I knew I saw that Mustang on the net, after you said the name I googled these things.
By Mike Murillo
#10, Posted: 2/18/2008
Wow...5 Minute spool time and my battery will melt. Thank goodness neither has happened. We are very pleased to say that the combo is working quite nice so far. We have tightened converter 3 times already and still have no problem spooling car. We have experienced no diminished boost or spool time to date. We have run a 7.18 @ 195 so far on a track that no other Outlaw 10.5 cars have made it down during off season. Stay Tuned cause its only getting better. Thanks to all that have supported us in this new adventure!!!!
From Hot Rod magazine:
"Mike tinkered with rear mounted turbos while building the car, but the extreme wheelstands adversely affected e.t.'s. He says a rear-mount setup may work well for a drag radial car but not on an Outlaw car with slicks
By Mike Murillo
#10, Posted: 2/18/2008
Wow...5 Minute spool time and my battery will melt. Thank goodness neither has happened. We are very pleased to say that the combo is working quite nice so far. We have tightened converter 3 times already and still have no problem spooling car. We have experienced no diminished boost or spool time to date. We have run a 7.18 @ 195 so far on a track that no other Outlaw 10.5 cars have made it down during off season. Stay Tuned cause its only getting better. Thanks to all that have supported us in this new adventure!!!!
From Hot Rod magazine:
"Mike tinkered with rear mounted turbos while building the car, but the extreme wheelstands adversely affected e.t.'s. He says a rear-mount setup may work well for a drag radial car but not on an Outlaw car with slicks
11-28-2010, 02:49 PM
#58
10 Second Club
Here is Paul Major's response to when his car caught on fire:
The fire was due to a Lokar tranny dip stick. The dip stick shot out sending hydrolic fluid all over the place. I over heated the tranny while on the foot brake for over 11 sec trying to hold the car back waiting for steve to start staging his car. The car pushed in to the tree real hot lighting both bulbs not suprising concidering how long i was on the ft brake. We then stayed on the trans brake for another 10 sec. Steve was waiting for me to light my first bulb before he started to build boost for what ever reason. I expected him to start building boost with me as I waited to make sure he was all set and his crew was clear before I even started. I am sure it wasnt intentional but that was the reason for the whole ordeal.
Nothing to do with the rear mounts!!!
The fire was due to a Lokar tranny dip stick. The dip stick shot out sending hydrolic fluid all over the place. I over heated the tranny while on the foot brake for over 11 sec trying to hold the car back waiting for steve to start staging his car. The car pushed in to the tree real hot lighting both bulbs not suprising concidering how long i was on the ft brake. We then stayed on the trans brake for another 10 sec. Steve was waiting for me to light my first bulb before he started to build boost for what ever reason. I expected him to start building boost with me as I waited to make sure he was all set and his crew was clear before I even started. I am sure it wasnt intentional but that was the reason for the whole ordeal.
Nothing to do with the rear mounts!!!
11-28-2010, 03:27 PM
#60
10 Second Club
I'm not trying to be a smart ***. My point is that it seems that as the air volume and velocity are increased the distance that the turbo is from the engine is less of a detriment. Also, maybe at a certain level there may be no disadvantage at all. I guess you could measure EGT's at the header and at the turbo on different combos (from small to outlaw) to see the true difference. I have to believe that guys like Major and Murillo did a fair amount of homework before deciding to go the route that they did considering the time and money involved. Phil, you are representing the front mount crowd pretty well.