AES Racing

iTrader: (6)

Yes, without a doubt enough cylinder wall.

This engine was only running for a short time? I wonder if it was air locked in the water passage behind that cylinder? Just an idea.

I've seen pictures of egg shape wear on the cylinder walls from air locking the cooling system.

FlashLCD33

iTrader: (8)

That thread is full of fail and wannabe-attorneys.

I'm no expert engine builder, or an expert at anything really, but the customer and shop are wrong.. and that's it.

An off the shelf crate motor with 13:1 compression with that big of bore, the only power adder I would consider is nitrous. Boost on that compression is possible with high octane fuel (lke they were using) and the timing in check, but there simply isn't enough wall there. AES, you brought up a great point as well, they said it only lasted a few minutes on the dyno.

I will say I am surprised to see it breaking like that, and that quickly, on that low of a hp number/runtime, but you never know how it was treated in those few minutes.

Why anyone would take a crate motor and try to push the envelope with it is beyond stupidity. What a real reputable shop. And then trying to blame GM for their mistake over a few loosely stated advertisements..

Am I wrong here?

Hank Peabody

iTrader: (2)

This thread has turned out just as bad as that one, some real arm chair commandos on here. If you see all these stock truck engines making 700 and 800whp all over the internet, why would you think a $10k crate engine would catostrophically fail like that? Even with the thin cylinder walls due to the big bore that should not have happened, and blocks with that much core shift should not be leaving the foundry. I guess its just human nature to be a hater and stomp on someone when they're down.

FMX05

iTrader: (3)

Stock trucks don't have that high of a static compression ratio and most of the ones that make 700-800rwhp are on borrowed time even with great tuners. It blew up in less than 10 minutes so it's very possible that the base tune was WAY off along with everything else.

stevieturbo

An idiot can destroy any engine be it $500, or $50,000. What is your point ?

Is it possible there is a manufacturing defect ? I guess anything is possible.

Is it possible there is another cause ? absolutely.

Hank Peabody

iTrader: (2)

My point is you dont know any better than I do why that engine took a ****, but here alot of you are jumping on him calling him an idiot, stupid, a moron etc. Its just mob mentality, once one starts, then everyone jumps on him calling him names, it is kind of pathetic. Sure it wasnt the best idea ever, but to blow up at 900whp who would think the cylinder would break before a head gasket let go or a piston broke.

98Z28CobraKiller

iTrader: (17)

Would you concede that it was a poorly laid out combo? Because whomever dreamed this up, was extremely wrong. The question is, was the owner pressing the shop to use the combo or did the shop press the owner. Regardless, if I was the person at GM that decides how this is handled, I would defer blame to whomever decided to put this group of components together.

Sweet_SS

IMHO opinion, I think the shop should have been up front about the whole build. That's why they are in the market they are in. For me, If I want to build a motor and tell the company that its going to be boosted, I would expect them to tell me the best route to take...I'm no genius when it comes to building motors, that's why I leave it up to the pro's. Reminds me when I had a forged motor build for my Talon...long story short, a longer than stock bolt was put in the pan causing my timing belt to rub on it. Luckily I changed my cams when I did, the belt was half destroyed on a 500 mile fully built motor. I know your pain. You should expect a shop to know what they are doing when you ask. Just my .2 cents.

Hank Peabody

iTrader: (2)

I dont think it was a great idea, but at 11:1 compression and an LSX block I wouldnt imagine the cylinder breaking like that, at least not at a measly 900hp. Regardless, four pages of people calling the owner and shop idiot, moron and stupid with no other input is kind of sad. I'd like to know if core shift played a part because I personally dont think a 4.185 bore LSX block should have a cylinder break at 900hp without alot more damage to the top of the piston.

Let me post the core shift photo from before:

I personally would never think an LSX block would get out the door looking like that. Maybe the guy had the engine laying around, never pulled the heads off, told the builder I plan on running on methanol or Q16 at all times and not going to push it that hard, lets do it, who would think it could have core shift that bad without seeing it first. I NEVER would think a GMPP $10k engine would have core shift like that, knowing that its obvious the LSX 454 shouldnt be pushed at all, but lay off the poor guy.

FMX05

iTrader: (3)

His attitude is what incited the riot. He absolutely refuses to accept any blame on his part or the shop's even though they are the ones that put the combo together and they are the ones who had it on an engine dyno. Don't expect people to treat him well when it's pretty obvious there is more to the story than he tells.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Precisely! What good shop, that knows ANYTHING about this industry, even with Dr. Meyer's "permission" agrees with this combo of parts?

Agreed on all points!

I do feel bad for the customer though, none-the-less....he should have been recommended a completely different combo, and likely none of this would have happened to him.

stevieturbo

Detonation doesnt care how much power is being made.

And the top of the piston is only one aspect. What is the rest of the piston like ?

I've plasma torched a hole through the block/head through detonation, and the top of the piston on that cylinder actually looked fine.

But at least I admit that I was the dummy, and dont go blaming everything else but myself.

Whilst I havent read the thread in depth. It seems this guy is wanting to blame GM based purely on some statements made in sales literature.
I guess that's why you guys have **** like "Contents may be hot" on cups of coffee and other silly things like that.
Some people really are so dumb that they need everything spelt out for them.

Now maybe there is an issue with the block, but the chances arent as high as there being issue with either the builder, or whoever is tuning it. Most likely the latter.

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

I never read the link.

Here is another NEW gen LSX tall deck at the std. 3.880" bore, same thing as the other pictured that we machined. As you take it out to the desired size, it will only exagerrate the issue. You can even see the bolt holes are off center for the #5 and #6 locations looking closely.

Used to be, at least the older SBC CNC Bowtie's, these would be picked up during sonic testing before machining by GM and be placed off to the side as blems. That doesn't look like it is happening today, out into the marketplace they go.

Couldn't say either way why it happened, but it appears there are several things playing against this individual. First thing that came to my mind was the bore size and the core shift I have seen on these blocks.

Bear in mind, there are good ones to be had, just might not get it the first time around.

Taubr Unit

iTrader: (32)

what am i trying to look at? What exactely is "core shift"?

Hank Peabody

iTrader: (2)

If he took the head off and there was as much core shift as these other blocks pictured then he is right and GM should give him a new block. A block with that much core shift is ridiculous in a $10k engine, I dont care what blows it up. If it isnt excessive core shift then its 100% on him and the builder and GM is free and clear. But I might be an idiot for expecting a $10k engine not to have a bunch of core shift.

stevieturbo

A 10k engine has nothing to do with the block.

if there is an issue with the block, then perhaps they may replace the block. But was the short motor being used in a manner it was sold for ? ie normally aspirated ?

If not, then cant see how he has any comeback.

I'm sure the short motor used exactly as it was intended probably was still fit for purpose.

It's a bit like anything. Say you buy a brand new turbocharged car, then screw the boost up to 30psi. Do you think the manufacturers warranty should still stand if the engine blows ?

So did he buy a specific engine that was designed for boost ?

Or did he buy a n/a engine, and use it with boost regardless ?

05HD

The engine detonated from a bad parts combination with a bad tune. Blaming it on GM is just the final act of stupidity.

Hank Peabody

iTrader: (2)

I guess the core shift isnt GMs fault, I wasnt aware a bad tune could cause that.

98Z28CobraKiller

iTrader: (17)

I will say Shame on GM for letting these blocks slip thru QC or setting the bar so low for what is acceptable.

Shawn @ VA Speed

iTrader: (3)

I agree with this 100%. GM really needs to step up on the QC of the blocks.
With that being said-i still don't think GM is to blame for this broken engine.