JAX04

iTrader: (17)

+1

joe11204

FWIW.

I was at PRI 2010 and while at the GM Performance parts booth I noticed they had a cut away LSX block on display.

Take a close look and form your own opinion. Keep in mind this is the block GMPP chose to display to the public.

In the picture, cylinders 2 & 4 are untouched as they are from the factory.

Cylinders 6 & 8 are bored to 4.125 according to the GMPP rep. Look at how little material is left at the 10 o'clock position of #6. In my opinion, there is obvious core shift in all cylinders and bolt holes.

There was a rep from GMPP there. He was supposedly the guy in charge of the LSX platform and said that there was nothing abnormal with the block. End of story as far as he was concerned.

05HD

Are you the guy that tuned it?

Core shift didn't turn that engine into a pile of scrap metal. Detonation is the one and only root cause of failure. Enlighten us how detonation was GMs fault please.

Hank Peabody

iTrader: (2)

Are you the guy that poured the block at the foundry?

If you'd be happy with a block with that much core shift more power to you. I recognize most of the problem is with the owner/tuner, but I dont see the world as black and white as you and think it is probable the core shift played a role in this problem.

Where did I say the detonation was GMs fault? You are assuming detonation is what blew that block up, where was that proven any more than core shift weakened the walls?

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

That is the pass side of the block, even cylinders.

That #6 hole is pretty darn bad at 4.125" in that one area, I'd say about .125" thick being generous, so take another .060" (.030" a side) out for 4.185" and your at .095" wall thickness at that one point, the weak point. A standard repair sleeve for a stock block (early SBC) is only this thick, and certainly is not recommended for a performance build. I wouldn't use any of these core shift affected blocks in a serious boosted application. Just my opinion, a decent NA HP deal would probably be fine.

This doesn't align with the way these things get marketed by GM, but then again the marketing and engineering folks don't always communicate real well.

BTW, that is an excellent picture illustrating the problem with alot of these blocks, and they chose that one to make a cut-away of and put on display.

FYI, most of the time the guys in the booths at the bigger trade shows are sales reps, not always, but most of the time, especially for the larger companies. That is how our company does it.

05HD

Have you been around engines for any time? They don't just cave in because the walls were too thin when everything is running perfect. The only possible role core shift played is where the hole was made. Still would have been a $10k boat anchor even with 3" thick walls.

FlashLCD33

iTrader: (8)

I agree it looks like there is a huge problem with those blocks pictured, and possibly several other blocks. And from what Shawn has said, there seems to be a huge problem with QC if they're that abundant.

On that note, the 454 wasn't/isn't meant for boost. Using a smaller bore like it should have, there should be plenty of meat in the cylinder walls.

Hank Peabody

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, and you're trying to make me out to be an amateur.

kmracer

iTrader: (1)

the walls are too thin for a boosted engine period. combine it with high compression, a (probably, judging by their ignorance so far) high SCR, who the **** KNOWS what AIT, and you have a recipe for disaster. while core shift may have made the already too thin walls thinner in one place, they were too thin PERIOD.

O.N.

If you look at thompson automotive all the LSX boosted blocks he uses are only bored to the 7L configuration of 4.125 the 454 is 4.185 the maximum bore on the LSX is 4.2 leaving you with 0.200 (so they say) but yeah all the boosted stuff is only 4.125 giving you thicker walls and as everyone knows you should be running lower compression pistons when boosting, ofcourse it is possible to run high compression with boost but when it detonates too early from all the heat bang it has to go somewhere and it chooses the weakest part if the valves are closed.

and yeah sure thing you can boost a 454 just lower your compression....deeeeeeerrrr!

kmracer

iTrader: (1)

^ see my previous post.

nghisus

What i don't like is they're trying to justify a warranty return, not by what's stated in the warranty but by what some guy from GM said. Even when you buy a $5 item on ebay you read the description. I would hope somebody who spends that kind of money on an engine has the fore sight to read what the warranty is, verify, then proceed with their plan fully understanding the liabilities, instead of boom now, fix later. I'm not hating. But this is like if I upon hearing from numerous GM engineers it was ok to run nitrous in my LS1 go ahead and do it then complain about warranty work not being honored if I happened to blow it on a 75hp shot. It should have held right?

More credence would be lent to his argument if more data was given and not just a pic of a blown block. Setup data, dyno data etc.

kmracer

iTrader: (1)

i agree completely. he's obviously not telling the whole story, rather, the story shows either a) the people assembling the car have no idea what the **** they're doing, or b) they're telling half the story. "but oh, it was on race gas" doesnt mean ****.

FMX05

iTrader: (3)

Whoops I accidentally loaded the tune for a bolt on car for the first dyno pull


Or, whoops, I had a 1 bar MAP sensor/ran it off a MAF tune.


There are so many things that could have gone wrong with tuning on that initial pull I don't know where to start. Like you said, race gas doesn't mean **** if you REALLY mess it up.

kmracer

iTrader: (1)

exactly. all the shop owner has to say is "AW **** MAN GM FUCKED US OVER LETS GIT EM! YEEEEEAAAARRRRR!!"

CarsandWomen

iTrader: (19)

um yes, as a matter of fact they do. Everything has a breaking point, IF this core shift was bad on this block and everything was running perfect it is entirely possible the breaking point was exceeded for a thin spot in the cylinder wall and the pictures from the first post were the result. Thats just common sense.


the bottom line here is that not nearly enough factual information surrounding the motor and its short life has been provided to make a conclusion as to why the block failed.

XtremeDime

iTrader: (16)

I think it just didnt have enough mithril combined in the making of the block. Couple that with not spraying vespene gas, and you have a recipe for disaster.

ysb02

I believe it's abnormally thin wall of a cylinder comparing it other cylinders. It's caused by bad casting at the factory or whatever shack in mexico they're made at.

Sucks for the 5th gen owner but the only time to catch the issue and get GM to fix it is looking at it before installing/running it. From the other shops posting on here it seems a lot of people are aware about the bad LSX blocks. I guess his shop was ignorant.

05HD

I will take that reply as you saying: "You are right, I have no idea what goes on inside an engine".

Oh, ok great. Show me some that have just caved in on all motor setups. There must be a rash of them with all of these horrible, defective LSX blocks floating around. Doesn't have to be an LSX though, show me any engine that just caved in a wall all motor after running for only a few minutes and wasn't detonating like a ****.

cjmatt

iTrader: (4)

Core shift shouldnt even be an issue on a low volume block like the LSX