CBR F2 System First Install
05-30-2011, 06:30 PM
#121
A/W performance is a lot better than most realize.
Instead of trying to sell people on the A/W we will just offer a A/A system.
Rob and I have been working with a customer that wants a A/A system for his big cube
LSX block motor.
This A/A system will contain genuine Garrett intercooler cores and be rated north of 1500hp.
This will be coming in the next few mounts.
This may lead to 3 different systems and 2 different prices.
1 A/W and premium A/A (Garrett cores) same price.
2 Cheaper A/A with a generic off the shelf intercooler.
Instead of trying to sell people on the A/W we will just offer a A/A system.
Rob and I have been working with a customer that wants a A/A system for his big cube
LSX block motor.
This A/A system will contain genuine Garrett intercooler cores and be rated north of 1500hp.
This will be coming in the next few mounts.
This may lead to 3 different systems and 2 different prices.
1 A/W and premium A/A (Garrett cores) same price.
2 Cheaper A/A with a generic off the shelf intercooler.
05-30-2011, 09:36 PM
#122
:d:d:d:d:d
a/w performance is a lot better than most realize.
Instead of trying to sell people on the a/w we will just offer a a/a system.
Rob and i have been working with a customer that wants a a/a system for his big cube
lsx block motor.
This a/a system will contain genuine garrett intercooler cores and be rated north of 1500hp.
This will be coming in the next few mounts.
This may lead to 3 different systems and 2 different prices.
1 a/w and premium a/a (garrett cores) same price.
2 cheaper a/a with a generic off the shelf intercooler.
Instead of trying to sell people on the a/w we will just offer a a/a system.
Rob and i have been working with a customer that wants a a/a system for his big cube
lsx block motor.
This a/a system will contain genuine garrett intercooler cores and be rated north of 1500hp.
This will be coming in the next few mounts.
This may lead to 3 different systems and 2 different prices.
1 a/w and premium a/a (garrett cores) same price.
2 cheaper a/a with a generic off the shelf intercooler.
06-02-2011, 06:42 PM
#125
Chris put the nozzles in the throttle body because the Meth kit's manufacturer only provided a flimsy silicone coupler mounting location that we not didn't like but it was also going to require us to spray before the MAF which is a no no.
Chris did a great job integrating the nozzles into the throttle body though.
your thoughts?
06-02-2011, 07:07 PM
#126
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Chris put the nozzles in the throttle body because the Meth kit's manufacturer only provided a flimsy silicone coupler mounting location that we not didn't like but it was also going to require us to spray before the MAF which is a no no.
Chris did a great job integrating the nozzles into the throttle body though.
your thoughts?
06-02-2011, 07:10 PM
#127
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Chris put the nozzles in the throttle body because the Meth kit's manufacturer only provided a flimsy silicone coupler mounting location that we not didn't like but it was also going to require us to spray before the MAF which is a no no.
Chris did a great job integrating the nozzles into the throttle body though.
your thoughts?
but i prefer them to be up stream of the Intake air temp sensor so the PCM can see whats going on.
Just lose the MAF , SD tuning is the way to go on boosted cars.
06-02-2011, 07:32 PM
#130
Our customer decided to put 4l80E in the car.
The tranny will be in tomorrow and get put in the car over the weekend.
The PCM got mailed to there tuner so he could put a base tune in it for 80# hr injectors and a 4l80 tranny tune so we can drive it to the dyno.
We are so close!!!!!
The tranny will be in tomorrow and get put in the car over the weekend.
The PCM got mailed to there tuner so he could put a base tune in it for 80# hr injectors and a 4l80 tranny tune so we can drive it to the dyno.
We are so close!!!!!
06-02-2011, 07:43 PM
#131
We will have 2 bar map on hand just in case the tuner decides he what's to go that route.
If he goes SD we will pull the nozzles and put them in the intake tube up stream of the IAT sensor.
The way it's setup now the meter is the last thing in line.
I'm not a fan of mounting anything in a silicone coupler, that's why I put the meth nozzles in the TB.
I really hope the tuner will tune this deal in SD.
I suggested this at the start of the build and the tuner said he could do it with the meter.
I don't have a dog in this fight so that's all between them and there tuner.
If he goes SD we will pull the nozzles and put them in the intake tube up stream of the IAT sensor.
The way it's setup now the meter is the last thing in line.
I'm not a fan of mounting anything in a silicone coupler, that's why I put the meth nozzles in the TB.
I really hope the tuner will tune this deal in SD.
I suggested this at the start of the build and the tuner said he could do it with the meter.
I don't have a dog in this fight so that's all between them and there tuner.
06-02-2011, 09:02 PM
#133
Our customer decided to put 4l80E in the car.
The tranny will be in tomorrow and get put in the car over the weekend.
The PCM got mailed to there tuner so he could put a base tune in it for 80# hr injectors and a 4l80 tranny tune so we can drive it to the dyno.
We are so close!!!!!
The tranny will be in tomorrow and get put in the car over the weekend.
The PCM got mailed to there tuner so he could put a base tune in it for 80# hr injectors and a 4l80 tranny tune so we can drive it to the dyno.
We are so close!!!!!
06-02-2011, 11:29 PM
#134
Let me clear some things up about the meth kit. We are spaying -20 windshield washer fluid.
Why? It is cheap and you can buy it anywhere.
I can hear the key boards clicking “straight meth is better”.
We are NOT using the meth as a supplemental fuel source.
We are using it as detonation control from a cooling standpoint.
The thing the most people don’t understand about water meth injection
is that the IAT sensor has NO IDEA how much water meth is being sprayed.
Nozzle placement from IAT plays into it, is the IAT on the same side of the pipe,
is the IAT getting wet? A lot of things play into the success that one has with a kit.
You can put a 5 GPH nozzle right in front of a IAT sensor and spray straight water
with no intercooler and see big drops in IAT temp and not do much of anything for the true IAT’s.
If you tune based on temp drop that you see from the IAT your a fool.
If a tuner is familiar with a type of motor he will have a good idea of how much timing is need
for the type of fuel being used at a given amount of boost.
There becomes a point a witch he knows that the amount of boost vs timing pulled is enough.
The kit is being used as a way to give us a safer pump gas tune and not a way to max out pump gas power.
I have put several kits on Buick GN’s and the kits were supplied with a chip tuned just for that meth kit. The kit builder stated NO MIX straight meth only!
They where cranking the boost up to 27 psi on some cars with zero knock on 93 pump gas.
Man you talk about put a smile on a customers face!
They drive in with a GN that runs 12.40’s and blow your phone up from the track bragging about there 11.00’s days later.
3-6 months later all of the cars I put kits on needed motors.
One guy let his tank get low and that got his motor and another guy’s pump seals swelled
up and the pump stop working. The kit maker told him that he got shipped the wrong pumps.
As far as the others go I can’t say what happed I wasn’t that close, I just heard they lost a motor,
I suspect it was a meth failure.
I’m just installed the kits that they where bringing me, all the kits where supplied by the customers.
You can make some amazing power on pump gas with water meth injection, but if you get to far out on that limb and it brakes your in for a hard landing.
I’m a victim of being to far out on that limb.
I had a SBC running 20 lbs of boost and one day making a pass at the track the pump locked up
at about 1000 feet into the run, the motor raddled real hard and I took my foot out of it and the motor died. I found a cracked cylinder wall and 6 bent wrist pins.
Just because it’s not passing over the IAT doesn’t mean it won’t work, it just means that we can’t see it working.
Why? It is cheap and you can buy it anywhere.
I can hear the key boards clicking “straight meth is better”.
We are NOT using the meth as a supplemental fuel source.
We are using it as detonation control from a cooling standpoint.
The thing the most people don’t understand about water meth injection
is that the IAT sensor has NO IDEA how much water meth is being sprayed.
Nozzle placement from IAT plays into it, is the IAT on the same side of the pipe,
is the IAT getting wet? A lot of things play into the success that one has with a kit.
You can put a 5 GPH nozzle right in front of a IAT sensor and spray straight water
with no intercooler and see big drops in IAT temp and not do much of anything for the true IAT’s.
If you tune based on temp drop that you see from the IAT your a fool.
If a tuner is familiar with a type of motor he will have a good idea of how much timing is need
for the type of fuel being used at a given amount of boost.
There becomes a point a witch he knows that the amount of boost vs timing pulled is enough.
The kit is being used as a way to give us a safer pump gas tune and not a way to max out pump gas power.
I have put several kits on Buick GN’s and the kits were supplied with a chip tuned just for that meth kit. The kit builder stated NO MIX straight meth only!
They where cranking the boost up to 27 psi on some cars with zero knock on 93 pump gas.
Man you talk about put a smile on a customers face!
They drive in with a GN that runs 12.40’s and blow your phone up from the track bragging about there 11.00’s days later.
3-6 months later all of the cars I put kits on needed motors.
One guy let his tank get low and that got his motor and another guy’s pump seals swelled
up and the pump stop working. The kit maker told him that he got shipped the wrong pumps.
As far as the others go I can’t say what happed I wasn’t that close, I just heard they lost a motor,
I suspect it was a meth failure.
I’m just installed the kits that they where bringing me, all the kits where supplied by the customers.
You can make some amazing power on pump gas with water meth injection, but if you get to far out on that limb and it brakes your in for a hard landing.
I’m a victim of being to far out on that limb.
I had a SBC running 20 lbs of boost and one day making a pass at the track the pump locked up
at about 1000 feet into the run, the motor raddled real hard and I took my foot out of it and the motor died. I found a cracked cylinder wall and 6 bent wrist pins.
Just because it’s not passing over the IAT doesn’t mean it won’t work, it just means that we can’t see it working.
06-03-2011, 12:24 AM
#135
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All valid points,
But if the pcm can see when your spraying meth/water via the IAT sensor the IAT Spark tables can be manipulated to safely add timing as temps drop.
Which is what would happen (all be it to a lessor degree) even if you don't tune for the meth.(less timing would be pulled as the IAT temps wouldn't be rising to the same extent)
Anyway this is a std bottom end engine, so I gather it will be tuned on pump gas ,then the water/meth set up for added insurance, not performance gain.
But if the pcm can see when your spraying meth/water via the IAT sensor the IAT Spark tables can be manipulated to safely add timing as temps drop.
Which is what would happen (all be it to a lessor degree) even if you don't tune for the meth.(less timing would be pulled as the IAT temps wouldn't be rising to the same extent)
Anyway this is a std bottom end engine, so I gather it will be tuned on pump gas ,then the water/meth set up for added insurance, not performance gain.
06-03-2011, 08:33 AM
#136
My intentions is for insurance.
Most people will run straight meth and trim there fuel tables to offset the meth like the chips where tuned for in the case of those GN's.
I makes no sense to me why people will spend thousands on a fuel system and leave the fate of there 6-10,000 motor in the hands of a $60.00 garden sprayer pump.
Most people will run straight meth and trim there fuel tables to offset the meth like the chips where tuned for in the case of those GN's.
I makes no sense to me why people will spend thousands on a fuel system and leave the fate of there 6-10,000 motor in the hands of a $60.00 garden sprayer pump.
06-03-2011, 01:13 PM
#139
I look at the plugs and knock count when tuning. The affect the water meth has on detonation will be represented in how far you can push the tuneup. The amount of water meth will affect this. It will work either way.
06-03-2011, 02:45 PM
#140
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Chris put the nozzles in the throttle body because the Meth kit's manufacturer only provided a flimsy silicone coupler mounting location that we not didn't like but it was also going to require us to spray before the MAF which is a no no.
Chris did a great job integrating the nozzles into the throttle body though.
your thoughts?
Chris did a great job integrating the nozzles into the throttle body though.
your thoughts?
