I wasn't trying to say you did anything wrong at all. Please don't take it that way. As I said I know when you have to perform work on the shop's expense it usually doesn't go the either way the customer or shop would of liked it to. That's all.

And thank you and Tom both for your service to our country. My grandfather was a Lt. Colonel in the AF during WWI and WWII and Korean War. Both Uncle's served in nam, with one still navigating kc-130 re-fueling tankers. He is a Major, and my cousin as we speak is fighting it out with the Taliban in the Korengal.

Hat's off to all the service men and women.

Now back to tom's motor

 

And poof there goes the posted response again...houdini....is that you?

Just picking....

 

Well, it sounds to me like Kurt Urban was helping a friend sell a motor and got caught in the middle which has resulted in **** getting sprayed all over his face. Sadly, IMO, giving this thing his blessing and shipping it out of his shop makes him responsible in the court of public opinion. I think the right thing to do here would have been for Kurt to make it right with Tom and work it out on the back end with Reckless. This all could have been resolved in one or 2 days and would have avoided all of this non-sense. As a business owner, sometimes you have to eat one as these types of issues that get more views than the positives.

 

I guess I would like to know what the goal of this thread was Tom? I think it should be clear to all that a misfortunate thing happened when the crank in your engine was produced.
It should also be clear that nobody tried to purposely harm you or your engine in anyway.


Kurt Urban

 

And just to let KUP know, I don't think any different of their engine building or operation as their work does speak for itself.

I think Tom just feels like he was given a raw deal, and thought highly enough of KUP to try and work it out privately before posting it publicly. If I'm wrong, Tom correct me.

 

I think you are wrong as my company was not contacted, although he may have contacted the original seller. This post is hard to understand what the goal/motive of the post was?


Kurt

 

No motive other than I have heard nothing but good things about your work.

I was just speaking for Tom, which I shouldn't looking at it now, by saying he probably felt he got a raw deal, and thought highly of you and your operation and that he wanted to keep the dealings private to resolve the issue.

I don't know any of the inner workings or what happened. As I always say there are 3 sides to a story. The buyer's side, the seller's side and the truth which is somewhere in between.

Good luck to all involved.

Just for the record I have no dog in this fight, just an observer at ring side.

 

fbody you pretty much nailed it.
it will never be resolved so im just moving on with my life.

 

I just now caught up to this post...as I have been so busy trying to get all my issues buttoned up and get out testing this year. I actually thought Tom had the car running recently and was making good power and laying down decent times at the track...I will say it's pretty disappointing reading all of these negative comments. That's not my style..so just put the popcorn away. This will only be facts from me, no assumptions unless I point them out.

Here's the 3rd side of the story to the best of my recollection, I'm getting old ya know,lol.

Tom contacted me 2008 or early 2009 (from Iraq-thank you again Tom) when I was selling my first race motor (built by W2W-Kurt spec'd/Billy Briggs built). At the time it was pulled, it ran great and I had made several low 8 sec passes that year (2008). At that time, nobody (and assume that includes W2W and Billy) knew that there were any issues whatsoever with the crank reluctor placement. Why would we? It's not some something that sticks out at a glance and I'm sure 99%+ are placed properly. The motor was making 1450-1500 in my combo and running good so the consensus (by Tom and Myself) was to have Kurt look everything over while moving the rotating assembly to a non-filled block since Tom's car was street/strip. Kurt and I shared that cost.

Fast forward to Tom's install....he called me several times (I believe Kurt as well) while trying to get the car to fire. Being just off my rookie season and mainly versed in BS3 and basic engine knowledge, I tried to help Tom over the phone the best I could. I can't remember if the reluctor placement issue was found out West or after Kurt got it back but after alot of frustration (by everyone) Kurt agreed to go back over the motor...so it was sent back to Michigan. Tom contacted me about the problem, we discussed it, Kurt and I discussed it..and I paid for the ring to be put on in the correct position for a stock pcm even though I never knew the problem existed. As far as I knew that was the end of the story, obviously not by reading this post. I really don't have any input on the other alledged issues, as I was not directly involved. Just a catch up note, I knew the flywheel holes were a little off, I had the same problem when I put it in my race car. I used a rat tail file to clearence my flexplate a little bit...I forgot that detail when Tom bought the motor. That's my fault but it had been over a year since I had did that and it was an easy fix in my mind.

I also want to say I have known Kurt for 10 years, he has built or been involved in building my stuff (5 motors street and strip) for all of those 10 years. His knowledge, of not just motors, but every detail about making HP and solid performance is some of the best in the LS business. If you call him and ask a 5 minute question, he'll give you a 20 minute answer. He has always has been fair and has the customer's interest in mind. For those of you that think that I'm a high end customer and get special treatment, your wrong. My first two engines that Kurt helped me with were under 700hp in street cars. Our relationship has obviously grown but it was because of the man with great character and incredible knowledge.

The only other point I want to make is....when anyone is trying to make a lot of HP whether street or strip...there are hurdles. Some of them may be obvious, some not...it's just life. I often wonder why I have the hobby I do, alot of money, a TON of time and effort sorting out issues...for what..7 sec's of thrill. Doesn't make alot of sense so I guess I will chock it up to addiction, probably need to see someone,lol

In the end...alot learned from this and obviously no fun for Tom but many of us have been there in some form or another. I really think alot more was made of this than needed to be.

Tom, I wish you luck going forward hopefully all the frustration will pay off in the end.

Mark

 

I was not questioning your motive Fbody, just pointing out the obvious about the original thread.

Kurt Urban

 

^^most important post in ths whole thread.

 

sorry Mark maybe i should of hit you up with that this thread was coming out.
By no means do i think you ever tried to screw me over and you always tried to help me out.
But what i am pissed off about is how long it took kurt to fix some thing.
and how so many things got over looked.
i just wanted a engine that was going to last. when ever Kurt swaped over blocks and or honed i should have never been able to take it. i even called and asked about the piston and bore clearances when i put it together.

hell didnt you have a cam gear come loose at the track in your car with your 447ci. whos fault was that? come on man really. its the little things that matter

i was so mad about the past bs. i didnt even wanted to try to bring this up. and the only reason name got put into this is Because of Todd. saying i was try to blackmail them f--- that p----. he couldnt even leave his posts up because he was so full of BS. Air force always running from a fight. so yeah that got me going really fast.

i was just venting at the start of this thread and you can see what it got turned into. im moving on, i got alot of nice parts off you i just wish it was better look over. not your fault at all.

 

Moral of the story, although it costs more initially to get something built yourself, in the long run, it pays off in spared aggravation. Curious as to who did that crank initially with the incorrect flange pattern and incorrect relluctor placement? Not who assembled it but rather the manufacturer.

 

its a callies crank

 

Well I am sincerely sorry for all the troubles Tom. I probably should have just called you on the phone, because typed messages don't always convey the message in the right tone. I am sure this would have turned out different if we had just talked on the phone. I could reply by attacking your branch of service as you did mine, but it isn't really relevant, or grown up, so please do not degrade either of our proud services further by doing so. This was an emotional issue for you and for me, as I naturally want to defend our position even though I was not involved when it happened. I am publicly offering my apologies for any errors or assumptions I made.

The Internet can be a wonderful tool for conveying information. However, the type-written words of a man, will never replace face to face communication for resolving things.

 

i think i got your tone loud and clear when you started throwing around the word blackmail. its emotional now for me. so its best for you just to stay out of this thread all together

 

The original reason for the post was.......


Kurt Urban

 

you cant take care of people and the little guys don't matter. are you on track now. Todd got this started and i WILL finish it Kurt Next time try to take care for people. it only takes one time

 

Kurt stop hiding behind your posts. Its obvious why Tom is pissed, quit beating around the bush. All of your posts have questioned motive, had no information and been very vague. Mark I really don't think it ever was an issue with you, it was the fact that the rotating assy was put into another block and all of a sudden the bore vs piston sizing is way off. The crank issue sucked but it was just delt with. It was the fact that after pulling the motor out again, Tom picked it up in a bucket of parts after 4 months. Also, don't try pulling the "cheap" card on Tom. The whole motor combo wasn't very cheap and Tom has NEVER had a problem spending big coin on his car.....he always pays for what he has too. Todd you blew a bunch of smoke up our *** and just said it was "really shitty luck" then, couldn't stand behind anything you said. I don't post anything I'm not comfortable keeping out there...you should try it. When you pulled that "blackmail" ****, that was when you really pissed us off...there is no alternative motive here....just being pissed with NO answers and being blown off. None of this is to get money or anything of the sort...the only question I asked Todd was if there was anything he could do. This was solely to to show others what's been transpiring and what we've been dealing with.

 

ruh roh raggy, and it starts again....maybe this thread would be better locked, although it is good for people to see things like this, in the end it just creates more issues, bad blood, and arguements than its worth.

I am curious as to what W2W's response is about the bore sizing being way off if indeed it the rotating assembly was swapped to a new block that wasn't filled. Those clearances should never made it out the door if they were that off. Also what they have to say about the 'motor' being completely dissasembled and in a box as if they had never been touched again....?

All the other's personally involved in this have had their motives questioned so maybe it's W2W's turn?

Once again I am just a casual observer to all of this, that is worried about now sending his motor off to be built out of state or some place I can't just pop in on and surprise.