Interesting observation on non intercooled ATI
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From: Bellevue, Wa
Interesting observation on non intercooled ATI Well I have discovered a little something that I am sure nobody else has because you all run intercoolers. These blowers run HOT. Cruising around town on a 80 degree day and inlet temps are 135-140! Hit the highway and they still don't drop much below 115-120. Even on a cool evening 50-60 degree temps, IAT's are still 90-100 at cruise on the highway. I am assuming the self contained oil just heats up quite a bit and causes the high inlet temps. People dis the vortech for tapping into the oil system but I bet recycling the oil thru keeps the temps down.
So now I guess I will look into doing some sort of heat sink or something clever like that to see if I can't keep the blower a little cooler. I can only imagine a 100 degree day. My friggen cruise inlet temps will probably be 150
So now I guess I will look into doing some sort of heat sink or something clever like that to see if I can't keep the blower a little cooler. I can only imagine a 100 degree day. My friggen cruise inlet temps will probably be 150
non intercooled vortech isnt much different as far as inlet temps, intercoolers/aftercoolers make a big difference. The turbotech race kit that mightymouse has uses a nice little water/air cooler that would be nice for the dragstrip. I seldom see even 20 degrees above ambient with the ATI twin intercoolers, even at the dragstrip, but you are spinning yours way higher then mine..
Matter of fact I can usually tell exactly what the outside air temp is by subtracting 10 degrees from my IATs if I'm moving for a few minutes
Matter of fact I can usually tell exactly what the outside air temp is by subtracting 10 degrees from my IATs if I'm moving for a few minutes
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I saw the same thing with the powerdyne. What are you seeing at WOT at a particular boost level at the top of fourth as far as IATs?
The ATI will actually be a little cooler than the vortech. It is the compression of the air that is heating it up so much
The ATI will actually be a little cooler than the vortech. It is the compression of the air that is heating it up so much
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From: Bellevue, Wa
with my powerdyne they stayed about 10-15 degrees above ambient until I went into boost.
I haven't gone into boost too much with the new setup yet. iat's fall dramatically because of the water alky but I hate the idea of them being so high when I first lay into it.
I haven't gone into boost too much with the new setup yet. iat's fall dramatically because of the water alky but I hate the idea of them being so high when I first lay into it.
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From: Downers Grove,IL
My IAT's yesterday with 45' ambient were 125 at cruise. Just a blip of throttle and they were 150. Last summer they were above 160 at cruise after 10mins.
My blower is moving/compressing a lot of air at low speeds.I have a mondo bypass also.
A very quick blip in 1st gear and I saw 63+lbs maf flow at 5300rpm. The new 4" inlet and 2.5" outlet make for some serious airflow with the 2.5" pulley at low speeds. Pushing tons more air than the motor needs cruising around so the air just gets hot.
Not much you can do about the heat without an intercooler when spinning the blowers this fast.
When I used a larger pulley the heat was not near as bad.
Looks like I will need race gas full time as even the slightest throttle(50% or so) and it's at 6-8psi boost and it knocks on 93 pump gas at part throttle.
The alcohol will bring down the temps at wot. But really can't use it at low throttle settings.
Putting a throttle before the blower will help but then your pulling vacuum at the blower inlet which can create problems with the seals and oil being pulled out of the case.
Such is the problems of a lot of boost and no intercooler.
I have not even laid into it yet with the new combo. Just getting to much KR right now at part throttle. I'll put in some 100 octane fuel and see if that helps.
But it looks promising.Throttle response is wicked.
Steve
My blower is moving/compressing a lot of air at low speeds.I have a mondo bypass also.
A very quick blip in 1st gear and I saw 63+lbs maf flow at 5300rpm. The new 4" inlet and 2.5" outlet make for some serious airflow with the 2.5" pulley at low speeds. Pushing tons more air than the motor needs cruising around so the air just gets hot.
Not much you can do about the heat without an intercooler when spinning the blowers this fast.
When I used a larger pulley the heat was not near as bad.
Looks like I will need race gas full time as even the slightest throttle(50% or so) and it's at 6-8psi boost and it knocks on 93 pump gas at part throttle.
The alcohol will bring down the temps at wot. But really can't use it at low throttle settings.
Putting a throttle before the blower will help but then your pulling vacuum at the blower inlet which can create problems with the seals and oil being pulled out of the case.
Such is the problems of a lot of boost and no intercooler.
I have not even laid into it yet with the new combo. Just getting to much KR right now at part throttle. I'll put in some 100 octane fuel and see if that helps.
But it looks promising.Throttle response is wicked.
Steve
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From: Bellevue, Wa
ahhh so the Vortech gets just as hot. hmm guess I will have to live with it. as far as using the alky at low throttle, I got one of the 2 stage controllers from Snow Performance and it works great.
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From: Bellevue, Wa
Thanks for the brilliant comment.
I don't want an intercooler.
Chris - yah I guess it was just panicking on my part. I never saw IAT's that high with the PD but of course it was pullied for a whole lot less boost
as for your previous question. little 3rd gear spurt this morning. start, IAT 108, end IAT 88
I don't want an intercooler.
Chris - yah I guess it was just panicking on my part. I never saw IAT's that high with the PD but of course it was pullied for a whole lot less boost
as for your previous question. little 3rd gear spurt this morning. start, IAT 108, end IAT 88
Last edited by Blackbird; Mar 8, 2004 at 12:18 PM.
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From: Downers Grove,IL
Heath, your injecting alky at part throttle? Any part throttle KR under boost?
How much boost do you see at 50% throttle at around 4500rpm?
Right now I have my system on a WOT switch. I could hook it up to a hobbs switch and have it inject as a function of boost so I get flow at part throttle. But I'll need a bigger tank as mine only holds 2 quarts.
I may try it though just to see how it works to see if it stops my part throttle KR.
How much boost do you see at 50% throttle at around 4500rpm?
Right now I have my system on a WOT switch. I could hook it up to a hobbs switch and have it inject as a function of boost so I get flow at part throttle. But I'll need a bigger tank as mine only holds 2 quarts.
I may try it though just to see how it works to see if it stops my part throttle KR.
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From: Bellevue, Wa
Steve,
Yes, injecting at part throttle. NO part throttle KR under boost.
50% throttle at 4500rpm is about 6-7psi.
I was always suprised you used a wot switch knowing you could produce plenty of boost before the pedal was to the metal
I would definetely start injecting at part throttle. I have it kick on low as soon as I see any boost, kicks on high at 5psi. Works great! No bog, No KR, just goes. I use a 5 gallon fuel cell located in the hatch so I have no worries of running out too fast
Yes, injecting at part throttle. NO part throttle KR under boost.
50% throttle at 4500rpm is about 6-7psi.
I was always suprised you used a wot switch knowing you could produce plenty of boost before the pedal was to the metal
I would definetely start injecting at part throttle. I have it kick on low as soon as I see any boost, kicks on high at 5psi. Works great! No bog, No KR, just goes. I use a 5 gallon fuel cell located in the hatch so I have no worries of running out too fast
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From: Downers Grove,IL
I'll try it later with a hobbs switch. Set it at 4psi. For the test I'll just use pure water to see how it works. I have never tried it at part throttle. If it works I'll need a pump controller I guess.
Is your system always under pressure? Do you use a solenoid?
Is your system always under pressure? Do you use a solenoid?
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From: Bellevue, Wa
I just have gravity feeding the pump and I also have a 25psi cracking pressure checkvalve installed right before my nozzle. so as soon as the pump stops pumping and pressure drops the valve closes so as a side effect I think that causes the system to stay primed on the outlet side too. make sense? basically it prevents it from being able to siphon out the water from the length of hose from the outlet of the pump up to the nozzle. so on the inlet side I always have water/alky ready due to gravity feed and also on the outlet side of the pump up to the checkvalve that length of hose stays full of water too. As soon as I start the pump it starts misting, no delays.
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From: Downers Grove,IL
sounds good. I like the 25psi check valve idea.
I have my pump gravity fed and the tank and pump where the battery was. It only has about 8" of line from tank to pump.
Then about 3ft of 6AN to the nozzle block whcih is right after the blower outlet. At the nozzle block is my return line with a .042 jet to build about 100psi+.
Blower pressure will blow the return line clean but it can't blow the pump to nozzle line clean as the pump has a built in check valve that will hold 100psi.
The system builds pressure just about instantly when activated.
I also have a manual button in car to over ride the hobbs switch. So I can always test or prime it.
I took apart the built in pressure switch assmebly on the pump which is bypassed and put a Normally off switch inside.
This is wired to an indicator light in car to let me know the pump is both operating and building pressure.
I have my pump gravity fed and the tank and pump where the battery was. It only has about 8" of line from tank to pump.
Then about 3ft of 6AN to the nozzle block whcih is right after the blower outlet. At the nozzle block is my return line with a .042 jet to build about 100psi+.
Blower pressure will blow the return line clean but it can't blow the pump to nozzle line clean as the pump has a built in check valve that will hold 100psi.
The system builds pressure just about instantly when activated.
I also have a manual button in car to over ride the hobbs switch. So I can always test or prime it.
I took apart the built in pressure switch assmebly on the pump which is bypassed and put a Normally off switch inside.
This is wired to an indicator light in car to let me know the pump is both operating and building pressure.
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Check out your IAT's during a 1/4 mile blast.
On my old low comp AFR head 383 LT1, I ran 8lbs with an S-trim non intercooled.
IATs hit 220*F at the top end of the 1/4. My IAT was actually running hotter then my coolant on that run lol.
On my old low comp AFR head 383 LT1, I ran 8lbs with an S-trim non intercooled.
IATs hit 220*F at the top end of the 1/4
. My IAT was actually running hotter then my coolant on that run lol. Thread Starter
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From: Bellevue, Wa
not worried there.
the longer I am in boost, the lower they go.
a 3rd gear romp this afternoon took them from 141 to 99.
Steve - I was wrong. Today I saw 5psi at 50% and 4500rpm
the longer I am in boost, the lower they go.
a 3rd gear romp this afternoon took them from 141 to 99.
Steve - I was wrong. Today I saw 5psi at 50% and 4500rpm
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From: Downers Grove,IL
Last summer with 13psi I was seeing about 135' IAT's at the end of a run with a 50/50 mix of water/alky and no intercooler. It would have been over 200 without.
I tried the part throttle flow last night with just water. I had the switch set to high at 5psi. So water did not flow before it knocked on most instances.
Amazing that at part throttle with 15GPH pure water flowing the motor did not stumble,surge or anything. Iat's stayed around 105 at part throttle boost vs 150 the other night.
I'll do more testing and get it to kick in sooner.
I'm running about 24 degrees timing at part throttle boost and pump gas can not handle it.
I tried the part throttle flow last night with just water. I had the switch set to high at 5psi. So water did not flow before it knocked on most instances.
Amazing that at part throttle with 15GPH pure water flowing the motor did not stumble,surge or anything. Iat's stayed around 105 at part throttle boost vs 150 the other night.
I'll do more testing and get it to kick in sooner.
I'm running about 24 degrees timing at part throttle boost and pump gas can not handle it.
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From: Bellevue, Wa
I have mine come on immediately Steve otherwise I get KR.
Thats where the dual stage controller comes in. With it I don't have to worry about bogging the car down with too much flow in the low boost situations but I get the advantage of enough flow to keep KR away.
Thats where the dual stage controller comes in. With it I don't have to worry about bogging the car down with too much flow in the low boost situations but I get the advantage of enough flow to keep KR away.