View Poll Results: Should Whipple Make A Gen 4 F-body Kit???
Yes
835
97.09%
No
25
2.91%
Voters: 860. You may not vote on this poll
Whipple Supercharger for the Gen 4 F-body
10-31-2011 | 12:26 PM
#247
11-01-2011 | 05:21 PM
#248
Your argument is based on the assumption that if this kit was available a certain percentage of the people that are currently doing turbo kits would buy this kit instead. It is a huge leap of faith to make that assumption.
The overall market for F-body forced induction systems is by definition shrinking. These cars haven't been made in almost 10 years and every day there are fewer and fewer of them on the road. Thus, it is a shrinking market.
For this product to succeed it would have to steal market share from the other solutions that are available to people. In order to steal market share the product has to offer an increase in the perceived value to the consumer. That value can come in different forms. It can be that the kit makes more power. It can be that the kit is less expensive than comparable offerings. It can be that the kit fits better. There are a number of ways to increase perceived value to the consumer.
I would say that it will take Whipple no less than $100,000 to develop this product. That is taking into account tooling costs, engineer salaries, and various other overhead. I also can't see them doing it in less than 6 months time. I don't want to actually go into doing the ROI calculations and break even calculations, but at a glance this seems like a loosing proposition.
Andrew
The overall market for F-body forced induction systems is by definition shrinking. These cars haven't been made in almost 10 years and every day there are fewer and fewer of them on the road. Thus, it is a shrinking market.
For this product to succeed it would have to steal market share from the other solutions that are available to people. In order to steal market share the product has to offer an increase in the perceived value to the consumer. That value can come in different forms. It can be that the kit makes more power. It can be that the kit is less expensive than comparable offerings. It can be that the kit fits better. There are a number of ways to increase perceived value to the consumer.
I would say that it will take Whipple no less than $100,000 to develop this product. That is taking into account tooling costs, engineer salaries, and various other overhead. I also can't see them doing it in less than 6 months time. I don't want to actually go into doing the ROI calculations and break even calculations, but at a glance this seems like a loosing proposition.
Andrew
$100,000 to develop the product? Ok, so sell a kit for 7k and 14-20 kits sold later you have already covered the cost of development...? Sure there are productions costs and whatnot, but let's say 100 kits are sold. I think that should come pretty damn close to covering all, if not more than enough of the development costs.
And you are seriously out of the loop if you think only 14, 20 or even only 100 of these kits would be sold if they were actually made. I myself am a Procharger guy, but I know the potential for this market could be huge if the Whipple was released
11-01-2011 | 06:27 PM
#249
Highly disagree, on the contrary, the Fbody market is EXPLODING right now. You make it sound like dozens of these cars are disappearing from the roads every day, when in reality new products and ideas are still being developed from them on a daily basis. Nowadays it's common to see people at a bare minimum of 500 hp, but 10 years ago 500 was the ****!
$100,000 to develop the product? Ok, so sell a kit for 7k and 14-20 kits sold later you have already covered the cost of development...? Sure there are productions costs and whatnot, but let's say 100 kits are sold. I think that should come pretty damn close to covering all, if not more than enough of the development costs.
And you are seriously out of the loop if you think only 14, 20 or even only 100 of these kits would be sold if they were actually made. I myself am a Procharger guy, but I know the potential for this market could be huge if the Whipple was released
$100,000 to develop the product? Ok, so sell a kit for 7k and 14-20 kits sold later you have already covered the cost of development...? Sure there are productions costs and whatnot, but let's say 100 kits are sold. I think that should come pretty damn close to covering all, if not more than enough of the development costs.
And you are seriously out of the loop if you think only 14, 20 or even only 100 of these kits would be sold if they were actually made. I myself am a Procharger guy, but I know the potential for this market could be huge if the Whipple was released
This is the only reason I have my Trans am today. If these cars still were still $20K today there is no way I could afford one right now. LS1's are still easy to sell. As long as they aren't over priced someone is always looking to buy one.
11-01-2011 | 07:31 PM
#250
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,244
Likes: 1,530
From: The City of Fountains
11-01-2011 | 08:05 PM
#251
I know because I have seen hundreds upon hundreds of people over the years bitching about there not being a whipple kit for these. Also, have you LOOKED at this thread? Look at these guys man.
11-01-2011 | 10:06 PM
#252
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,244
Likes: 1,530
From: The City of Fountains
Whatever happened to the guy that was taking MagnaCharger kits and modifying them to work on the F-Bodies?
Furthermore, there are some really serious packaging restraints that have to be overcome when installing a roots blower on an f-body. People don't want to cut the cowl, which means the blower has to be moved forward. When the blower is moved forward the pulley starts to get into the hood. Then you have to turn the blower around and use a jackshaft, but the back of the blower is even taller than the front, so a custom casting needs to be made to move the throttle body down, but then it runs into the radiator, etc....etc...etc...
There is a reason why MagnaCharger or KB have not made a kit for f-bodies.
Andrew
11-02-2011 | 12:09 PM
#253
There is a huge difference between what people say they will buy and what they actually buy.
Whatever happened to the guy that was taking MagnaCharger kits and modifying them to work on the F-Bodies?
Furthermore, there are some really serious packaging restraints that have to be overcome when installing a roots blower on an f-body. People don't want to cut the cowl, which means the blower has to be moved forward. When the blower is moved forward the pulley starts to get into the hood. Then you have to turn the blower around and use a jackshaft, but the back of the blower is even taller than the front, so a custom casting needs to be made to move the throttle body down, but then it runs into the radiator, etc....etc...etc...
There is a reason why MagnaCharger or KB have not made a kit for f-bodies.
Andrew
Whatever happened to the guy that was taking MagnaCharger kits and modifying them to work on the F-Bodies?
Furthermore, there are some really serious packaging restraints that have to be overcome when installing a roots blower on an f-body. People don't want to cut the cowl, which means the blower has to be moved forward. When the blower is moved forward the pulley starts to get into the hood. Then you have to turn the blower around and use a jackshaft, but the back of the blower is even taller than the front, so a custom casting needs to be made to move the throttle body down, but then it runs into the radiator, etc....etc...etc...
There is a reason why MagnaCharger or KB have not made a kit for f-bodies.
Andrew
11-02-2011 | 09:30 PM
#254
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,244
Likes: 1,530
From: The City of Fountains
I think that the kind of guys that don't mind cutting the cowl are running turbos or centrifugal blowers.
Andrew
11-03-2011 | 11:30 AM
#256
11-03-2011 | 06:37 PM
#257
I agree that the reason more people didnt go with the maggie was due to the limits of power. Some days I regret that aspect of it as well but I still love it overall. Cutting the cowl and lowering the k member is nothing. Its cake compared to some of the crazy *** turbo builds I've seen. Hell even the mild ones for that matter. I realize they net more gain but it's still very involved.
The other big issue that I noticed with the maggie "kits" was that no one really made an all inclusive "kit". You still had to be fairly crafty to make it come together. But the real killer for me was the shittastic customer support from the 2 companys that were most notorious for the kit. LM Speed is apparently out of business now (which Ed apparently ripped off several people) and MTI is banned on this site last time I looked up one of their users (and they should be for the way they treated me). I know they are still in business but I dont believe they even offer the kit anymore.
I'm sure that since whipple has the front intake system for the 2.9L now that someone will mock it up on an fbody sooner than later. Like it was stated earlier, that system is still pretty new to the market. I would like to hear something from Mike though. It's been a while since he has chimed in. I dont expect them to be done with R&D at this point but he could at least tell us if we need to abort the thread or not.
And those that were hating on the LT1 guys earlier, I realize they intend to build this for an LS1 and probably have no intentions of even considering an LT1 version but, your arguments based on the fact that this is "LS1Tech" and not "LT1Tech" is pretty lame. Just recently I read about some *** worried about what his gf dressed up like for halloween, another one asking how old everyone is, another one asking for a loan to build this motor, etc. etc. Why didn't you all tell them this was LS1Tech? Lighten up boys...
The other big issue that I noticed with the maggie "kits" was that no one really made an all inclusive "kit". You still had to be fairly crafty to make it come together. But the real killer for me was the shittastic customer support from the 2 companys that were most notorious for the kit. LM Speed is apparently out of business now (which Ed apparently ripped off several people) and MTI is banned on this site last time I looked up one of their users (and they should be for the way they treated me). I know they are still in business but I dont believe they even offer the kit anymore.
I'm sure that since whipple has the front intake system for the 2.9L now that someone will mock it up on an fbody sooner than later. Like it was stated earlier, that system is still pretty new to the market. I would like to hear something from Mike though. It's been a while since he has chimed in. I dont expect them to be done with R&D at this point but he could at least tell us if we need to abort the thread or not.
And those that were hating on the LT1 guys earlier, I realize they intend to build this for an LS1 and probably have no intentions of even considering an LT1 version but, your arguments based on the fact that this is "LS1Tech" and not "LT1Tech" is pretty lame. Just recently I read about some *** worried about what his gf dressed up like for halloween, another one asking how old everyone is, another one asking for a loan to build this motor, etc. etc. Why didn't you all tell them this was LS1Tech? Lighten up boys...
