twin turbo and a 6 speed?
11-18-2011, 03:19 PM
#41
The question wasn't which is faster, the question was why don't you see any fbodies with turbo's and sticks running in the 8's....My point being I would feel like **** if I pulled up beside a stick supra or viper and I had my infamous automatic that will beat everything on the planet and I get smoked because he has the ***** enough to learn out to drive a stick and can do it and run in the 8's...if I wanted a boring auto car where you push the pedal and go I would have an automatic, I don't care if my car has a bulletproof auto with a 10k stall its still a damn automatic...I have my car because I think its fun to drive and "in my opinion" an automatic isn't fun to drive whatsoever....but this is my opinion and I am allowed to have my opinion I don't wanna be just another lame *** automatic guy...
11-18-2011, 05:08 PM
#42
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Eh I've had some folks that I've met and raced again get into the 8's with a 6-speed. Here's one of the video's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WGBwklqAPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WGBwklqAPE
11-18-2011, 05:28 PM
#43
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The question wasn't which is faster, the question was why don't you see any fbodies with turbo's and sticks running in the 8's....My point being I would feel like **** if I pulled up beside a stick supra or viper and I had my infamous automatic that will beat everything on the planet and I get smoked because he has the ***** enough to learn out to drive a stick and can do it and run in the 8's...if I wanted a boring auto car where you push the pedal and go I would have an automatic, I don't care if my car has a bulletproof auto with a 10k stall its still a damn automatic...I have my car because I think its fun to drive and "in my opinion" an automatic isn't fun to drive whatsoever....but this is my opinion and I am allowed to have my opinion I don't wanna be just another lame *** automatic guy...
Last edited by Sluggish; 11-18-2011 at 07:22 PM.
11-19-2011, 12:19 AM
#45
BTW Dave(MM) told me he once broke THREE T56's IN ONE WEEK!!! If you can afford that type of upkeep so be it more power to you.
I'm going to steal a line from los here, but you guys that are so happy rowing gears and say auto's are boring have NEVER felt a 4500rpm 13psi boosted transbrake launch. If that don't convert you over you don't belong on a race track.
One more, 6 speeds impress high school kids, auto's win races!!!
I'm going to steal a line from los here, but you guys that are so happy rowing gears and say auto's are boring have NEVER felt a 4500rpm 13psi boosted transbrake launch. If that don't convert you over you don't belong on a race track.
One more, 6 speeds impress high school kids, auto's win races!!!
11-19-2011, 05:55 AM
#46
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rotary1307cc...nice well thought out argument...I really enjoy how apparently you can go buy a built 4l80 for dirt cheap....last I checked one that holds more than 1000hp is about $5000....and still no one has actually tried to answer the question they just say stick is junk go auto and be just like every other ****...yea that's what I'll do then, since you guys told me to...sorry for hijacking your thread man, you can have it back..
11-19-2011, 06:57 AM
#47
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So I am about to deploy in a month and when I get back I am going to re do my f body. I am making her a 6 speed for sure. I was looking at the aps twin Turbo. my buddy was telling me that I should keep the a4 with the Turbo because shifting will cause me to loose a lot of boost. So my question is how much will shifting effect boost?
I used to have a 6speed but once I hit over 700 rwhp I broke it 3 times. Broken synchro, broken teeth on a gear and then a bent output shaft.
Its a lot of fun hearing the blowoff on the street while shifting. I used to road race the car but went full out drag car. The big torque spike from the turbos made it hard to feather the turns with power. But I definitely had fun doing it.
11-19-2011, 07:16 AM
#48
It comes down to personal preference and where you drive your car. If you spend a lot of time at the track, then an auto is the way to go for sure. Me personally, I haven't been on a track in 6+ years, and rarely drive on any roads that have multiple lanes, so there's no 'lining up next to someone' either. So for me, I love shifting gears, or leaving it in third through a set of sweepers and having fun. I know it's not the fastest approach, but neither is rolling on big wheels or being lowered with big sway bars front and rear.
If you are worried about your time slip to horsepower ratio, then go automatic, but if you really like rowing gears and don't care if you're maximizing your time slip efficiency, then stay a 6 speed.
If you are worried about your time slip to horsepower ratio, then go automatic, but if you really like rowing gears and don't care if you're maximizing your time slip efficiency, then stay a 6 speed.
11-19-2011, 09:20 AM
#50
rotary1307cc...nice well thought out argument...I really enjoy how apparently you can go buy a built 4l80 for dirt cheap....last I checked one that holds more than 1000hp is about $5000....and still no one has actually tried to answer the question they just say stick is junk go auto and be just like every other ****...yea that's what I'll do then, since you guys told me to...sorry for hijacking your thread man, you can have it back..
And you are the one who busted out the "lame *** automatic guys"
You sure you dont drive a honda?....... Where it is cool to go slow because "it is different"
11-21-2011, 07:38 PM
#52
Eh I've had some folks that I've met and raced again get into the 8's with a 6-speed. Here's one of the video's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WGBwklqAPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WGBwklqAPE
11-21-2011, 07:40 PM
#53
A properly installed blowoff valve will prevent you from completely losing all your boost however the answer is yes. You will lose more boost while shifting a manual than you would an automatic or by using a pure racing manual. Part of boost loss would also come from taking your foot off wide open throttle also.
I used to have a 6speed but once I hit over 700 rwhp I broke it 3 times. Broken synchro, broken teeth on a gear and then a bent output shaft.
Its a lot of fun hearing the blowoff on the street while shifting. I used to road race the car but went full out drag car. The big torque spike from the turbos made it hard to feather the turns with power. But I definitely had fun doing it.
I used to have a 6speed but once I hit over 700 rwhp I broke it 3 times. Broken synchro, broken teeth on a gear and then a bent output shaft.
Its a lot of fun hearing the blowoff on the street while shifting. I used to road race the car but went full out drag car. The big torque spike from the turbos made it hard to feather the turns with power. But I definitely had fun doing it.
11-22-2011, 01:04 PM
#55
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98z28cobrakiller is right a blow off valve is to prevent compressor surge not keep the engine loaded and boost up in between gears
"Blowoff valve
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A blowoff valve (BOV) or dump valve is a pressure release system present in most turbocharged engines.
Its purpose is to prevent compressor surge, and reduce wear on the turbocharger and engine. Blowoff valves relieve the damaging effects of compressor "surge loading" by allowing the compressed air to vent to atmosphere, making a distinct hissing sound, or recirculated into the intake upstream of the compressor inlet."
back to the op's topic...if the dude wants a six speed let him do it either he'll have to be content on 9's or pony up with a th400 or 4l80 and go faster.
"Blowoff valve
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A blowoff valve (BOV) or dump valve is a pressure release system present in most turbocharged engines.
Its purpose is to prevent compressor surge, and reduce wear on the turbocharger and engine. Blowoff valves relieve the damaging effects of compressor "surge loading" by allowing the compressed air to vent to atmosphere, making a distinct hissing sound, or recirculated into the intake upstream of the compressor inlet."
back to the op's topic...if the dude wants a six speed let him do it either he'll have to be content on 9's or pony up with a th400 or 4l80 and go faster.
11-22-2011, 03:04 PM
#56
When i first got my car it was an auto. I put a stall in and fell in love with the car all over again, it was a blast to drive. But Im a diehard 6spd guy so i swapped a t56 in when i thought my 4l60e was starting to go. I absolutely love shifting and i dont live at the track. Im doing a turbo build now and im putting a good clutch in it for now. But as soon as the t56 goes, a 4l80e will be going in. Although, Im pretty sure my 6 spd will hold for a long time as this is mainly a street/roll racing car.
Its whatever suits your style and right now i could care less what e.t. my car runs. I use the track to see how healthy the car is and to see if i picked up any good power with the mods i do in between trips based off the mph i run.
Racejunky02, people have answered your question. More people run an auto into the 8's because its so much easier(and cheaper). YES you can run a t56 into the 8s but will it be easy? NO. Built 4l80es can be expensive but building t56s is also very expensive. Its all about the path of least resistance. You are also talking to a bunch of people who drive fbodies. These are not expensive cars by any means. Supras, vettes, and vipers are and the pockets (in general) run much deeper.
A custom stall for a 4l80e nearly the same price as one of the top dual disc clutches. You can pick up a running 4l80e for under 1000, you cannot pick up a good t56 for that, let alone get an 8sec capable one. And there is also the fact that our t56s are NOT the same ones that are in vipers, so you cant expect the same out them.
Its cool to be different but in this case its also more expensive.
Its whatever suits your style and right now i could care less what e.t. my car runs. I use the track to see how healthy the car is and to see if i picked up any good power with the mods i do in between trips based off the mph i run.
Racejunky02, people have answered your question. More people run an auto into the 8's because its so much easier(and cheaper). YES you can run a t56 into the 8s but will it be easy? NO. Built 4l80es can be expensive but building t56s is also very expensive. Its all about the path of least resistance. You are also talking to a bunch of people who drive fbodies. These are not expensive cars by any means. Supras, vettes, and vipers are and the pockets (in general) run much deeper.
A custom stall for a 4l80e nearly the same price as one of the top dual disc clutches. You can pick up a running 4l80e for under 1000, you cannot pick up a good t56 for that, let alone get an 8sec capable one. And there is also the fact that our t56s are NOT the same ones that are in vipers, so you cant expect the same out them.
Its cool to be different but in this case its also more expensive.
Last edited by Ryans99ls1; 11-22-2011 at 03:13 PM.
11-22-2011, 03:27 PM
#57
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When i first got my car it was an auto. I put a stall in and fell in love with the car all over again, it was a blast to drive. But Im a diehard 6spd guy so i swapped a t56 in when i thought my 4l60e was starting to go. I absolutely love shifting and i dont live at the track. Im doing a turbo build now and im putting a good clutch in it for now. But as soon as the t56 goes, a 4l80e will be going in. Although, Im pretty sure my 6 spd will hold for a long time as this is mainly a street/roll racing car.
Its whatever suits your style and right now i could care less what e.t. my car runs. I use the track to see how healthy the car is and to see if i picked up any good power with the mods i do in between trips based off the mph i run.
Racejunky02, people have answered your question. More people run an auto into the 8's because its so much easier(and cheaper). YES you can run a t56 into the 8s but will it be easy? NO. Built 4l80es can be expensive but building t56s is also very expensive. Its all about the path of least resistance. You are also talking to a bunch of people who drive fbodies. These are not expensive cars by any means. Supras, vettes, and vipers are and the pockets (in general) run much deeper.
A custom stall for a 4l80e nearly the same price as one of the top dual disc clutches. You can pick up a running 4l80e for under 1000, you cannot pick up a good t56 for that, let alone get an 8sec capable one. And there is also the fact that our t56s are NOT the same ones that are in vipers, so you cant expect the same out them.
Its cool to be different but in this case its also more expensive.
Its whatever suits your style and right now i could care less what e.t. my car runs. I use the track to see how healthy the car is and to see if i picked up any good power with the mods i do in between trips based off the mph i run.
Racejunky02, people have answered your question. More people run an auto into the 8's because its so much easier(and cheaper). YES you can run a t56 into the 8s but will it be easy? NO. Built 4l80es can be expensive but building t56s is also very expensive. Its all about the path of least resistance. You are also talking to a bunch of people who drive fbodies. These are not expensive cars by any means. Supras, vettes, and vipers are and the pockets (in general) run much deeper.
A custom stall for a 4l80e nearly the same price as one of the top dual disc clutches. You can pick up a running 4l80e for under 1000, you cannot pick up a good t56 for that, let alone get an 8sec capable one. And there is also the fact that our t56s are NOT the same ones that are in vipers, so you cant expect the same out them.
Its cool to be different but in this case its also more expensive.
11-22-2011, 03:39 PM
#58
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I was a die hard 6 speed guy until I sat down and really thought about it. I would still love to have a 6 speed turbo car but the only way it would be feasible for me is to keep it under 650whp. You can make it live at that mark for a long time if you take care of it. I know how fast my car became boring being H/C with 450whp so it would only be a matter of time before I wanted more. At that point I would have to drop some serious coin on a ridiculous trans and clutch only to roll the dice every time I drove it. I don't have the budget to continually fix big ticket items like that. I want to build something that will stay together for a while. I'm shooting for around 800whp on E-85 and moderate boost with 4 digit capability at the wheel. For the price of a top of the line T56 and good twin disc I can buy a nasty 4L80E and only do it once. That, and the bigger turbo will love the auto. I'll probably buy a C5 FRC in a year or two if I feel like I need a 6 speed fix.
Yes 4L80E's are expensive but odds are you won't break it if it is built right. A top of the line T56 and clutch are around the same price and you WILL break it sooner rather than later. Our 6 speeds just aren't meant to go 7's or 8's. The cars are too heavy and the trans is too weak. Sure it can be done, but who want to spend that much money to get a turbo F-body in the 8's just to say they did it? Not this guy.
Now if I was on a stock motor, or I intended on keeping a 600-650whp power level for a long period of time I would keep my 6 speed in a heartbeat. After that point it just isn't worth it to me. And no, I'm not building a race car. This is a street car that will see 10-20 passes a year most likely.
11-22-2011, 03:43 PM
#59
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I must have missed your comment earlier, sorry...I like logical talking not some retard calling me a jackass without even a simple explanation but yeah thats what I am building right now, a car that will see "maybe" 10-20 passes a year and I hope to have 800ish hp at the beginning and possibly go up from there, I will do the viper internals buy a good clutch and whenever the transmission grenades I will rebuild it...
11-22-2011, 03:45 PM
#60
Until my car got totaled I REFUSED to go to a auto. I wanted to leave the 6 speed so bad. I had a twin turbo kit with smaller (61mm) turbo's to help boost drop between gears and I still lost boost between gears. I ended up breaking the output shaft, so I sent the T56 to Liberty (which was already built) to have 30 spline output shaft and faceplated gears put in. When I got the tranny back I loved rowing the gears without lifting and just seeing how fast it would shift. I wouldn't see hardly any boost lose between gears..... That being said, I was still slow at the track in comparison to auto cars. I was striving to beat Mighty Mouse's time of 9.97 though, so that was my goal, not really being faster than the auto guys at the time. Fastest I ever got out of my T56 was 10.06 @ 143 on a 275/60 drag radial and let me tell you it took many missed gear, tires spinning, car bogging next pass, cussing, swinging arms passes down the track to do it. Car was never consistent, granted I was on radials and everyone knows radials and stick cars don't mix that well. If I were to build a more purpose drag car it would be for sure a 4L80/TH400 car. As fun as rowing the gears is, once you are making a lot of power the fun goes out the window, it is HARD to drive a high HP stick car (and I was only making around 800rwhp)
All that being said I am building a twin turbo 78 Trans Am with what.... you guessed it, a T56 LOL, but this will not be a drag car (at least not for the most part
)
to the OP it truely is up to you, if you like rowing gears go for the 6 speed. As much as I love them though, I hated it EVERY single pass down the track. My next 4th gen (yes there will be another one day) will for sure be a single turbo/auto car
All that being said I am building a twin turbo 78 Trans Am with what.... you guessed it, a T56 LOL, but this will not be a drag car (at least not for the most part
)to the OP it truely is up to you, if you like rowing gears go for the 6 speed. As much as I love them though, I hated it EVERY single pass down the track. My next 4th gen (yes there will be another one day) will for sure be a single turbo/auto car