Having tuning issues with vortech V1 setup
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,740
Likes: 2
From: Nebraska
Having tuning issues with vortech V1 setup Hey guys, before I start, I know this is a GM site but i didn't feel like making an account on a mustang forum.....
I've been helping my buddy on his 97 cobra mustang with the 4v 4.6L
we changed the original non intercooled Vortech V1 setup into a front mounted intercooled setup.
The original setup had the By-pass valve throw the bypassed air back into the intake after the MAF. Now we have the valve shooting to the atmosphere right before the TB.
The order the of the FI is like this now: Air filter, MAF, supercharger, intercooler, IAT sensor, Bypass valve, TB.
We now have a tuning issue where the MAF isn't reading right and would cause a lean condition under boost.
So now we are wondering, do we need to have the MAF right before the throttle body and after the Bypass valve? or do we need to bypass the air back into the the intake after the MAF?
Any help would be appreciated, we are pretty new to FI so we're still learning. Even though it's not an LSX I would hope you could still help us figure it out!
Thanks
Aaron
I've been helping my buddy on his 97 cobra mustang with the 4v 4.6L
we changed the original non intercooled Vortech V1 setup into a front mounted intercooled setup.
The original setup had the By-pass valve throw the bypassed air back into the intake after the MAF. Now we have the valve shooting to the atmosphere right before the TB.
The order the of the FI is like this now: Air filter, MAF, supercharger, intercooler, IAT sensor, Bypass valve, TB.
We now have a tuning issue where the MAF isn't reading right and would cause a lean condition under boost.
So now we are wondering, do we need to have the MAF right before the throttle body and after the Bypass valve? or do we need to bypass the air back into the the intake after the MAF?
Any help would be appreciated, we are pretty new to FI so we're still learning. Even though it's not an LSX I would hope you could still help us figure it out!
Thanks
Aaron
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Queens, NY
The bypass cant be after the maf, the way u have it there would be a rich condition when letting off the throtle.. And a lean condition in vacuum because air can enter through the bypass... You should move the maf to the pressure side before the throtle body.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,740
Likes: 2
From: Nebraska
Okay so should we leave the valve in the same place and move the MAF right before the TB and after the Valve? I could be dead wrong but I assume the MAF wants to read the air being forced into the motor instead of where we have it directly on the air filter before the Vortech right?
I don,t have a maf now,(switched to speed density) but when I did it was between the air filter and the supercharger. My bypass is on the aftercooler after the supercharger and the maf was right after the air filter
Last edited by phatasp; Oct 28, 2011 at 08:08 AM.
Another Vortech tuning issue - what worked for you? I'm a noob too so any thoughts will be useful. I had this kit installed about a year ago and it's a blast with WOT but an embarassing PITA to drive around town (it's my daily driver) because it can't idle and stutters terribly coming off a red light. Sometimes even dies. In the intersection. Really sucks.
I am looking for that silky smooth drive-ability mentioned in another thread - not maximum horsepower. I've been to 4 different tuners multiple times, 3 of them with dynos so I've spent serious $$$ trying to get it straightened out. I think maybe the last guy has figured it out - he says the MAF sensor sends erratic signals below about 70% open throttle (standing still on a dyno of course) so the ECU doesn't know what to do. He thinks it's because the airflow is turbulent (or at least not consistent) because of the bends and folds in the plumbing where the MAF is. His suggestions were to re-fabricate the intake plumbing so the MAF is in a straight section or to go to a speed density tune (for another $500+).
So I was wondering: 1) what are the possible downsides with a SD tune, i.e., why isn't it the default? 2) Is there a cheaper, simpler fix like just moving the MAF or getting one with different specs? By the way, the way I have it is where the Vortech installation manual shows it to be.
So Phatasp, did you go to SD because of similar problems? Where exactly did you have your MAF - on the air box or at the outlet end of the accordion section? M6, did you get your problem worked out? What did you do?
Thanks in advance for any help!
I am looking for that silky smooth drive-ability mentioned in another thread - not maximum horsepower. I've been to 4 different tuners multiple times, 3 of them with dynos so I've spent serious $$$ trying to get it straightened out. I think maybe the last guy has figured it out - he says the MAF sensor sends erratic signals below about 70% open throttle (standing still on a dyno of course) so the ECU doesn't know what to do. He thinks it's because the airflow is turbulent (or at least not consistent) because of the bends and folds in the plumbing where the MAF is. His suggestions were to re-fabricate the intake plumbing so the MAF is in a straight section or to go to a speed density tune (for another $500+).
So I was wondering: 1) what are the possible downsides with a SD tune, i.e., why isn't it the default? 2) Is there a cheaper, simpler fix like just moving the MAF or getting one with different specs? By the way, the way I have it is where the Vortech installation manual shows it to be.
So Phatasp, did you go to SD because of similar problems? Where exactly did you have your MAF - on the air box or at the outlet end of the accordion section? M6, did you get your problem worked out? What did you do?
Thanks in advance for any help!
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^ They must have the wrong injector flow numbers in the tune, you have a failing maf or other issue. I would think the tuner would know how to check these simple issues. There's no way you should have to move the MAF. That thing should idle fine, if the idle is bad I can't imagine how bad the tune is for WOT.
What's going on in Houston? Did all the good tuners retire?
Ok, hijack over.
What's going on in Houston? Did all the good tuners retire?
Ok, hijack over.
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Verdad Gallardo This is how I had it when I put first put the g-trim on,Then I switched to speed density with the t-trim. I never had any problems with the maf. When I had it tuned they suggested sd because it was easier to tune.
thanks Thanks for the replies. I didn't intend to sound like I'm ragging on the tuners - these guys are well known and respected around here. My point is that something unusual must be going on for them to not be able to solve it. When I compare mine with phatasp's first setup I see he had smooth tubing from the airbox to the MAF instead of the accordion folds I have, so I'll try switching that out and go from there.
For what it's worth, I talked to Vortech and they didn't have any advice on MAF placement or sizing; the way I have it is their recommended setup if you use the tuning chip that came with the kit. Since I'm using an HP tune they couldn't comment on it.
For what it's worth, I talked to Vortech and they didn't have any advice on MAF placement or sizing; the way I have it is their recommended setup if you use the tuning chip that came with the kit. Since I'm using an HP tune they couldn't comment on it.
I'm a noob too so any thoughts will be useful. I had this kit installed about a year ago and it's a blast with WOT but an embarassing PITA to drive around town (it's my daily driver) because it can't idle and stutters terribly coming off a red light. Sometimes even dies. In the intersection. Really sucks.
I am looking for that silky smooth drive-ability mentioned in another thread - not maximum horsepower. I've been to 4 different tuners multiple times, 3 of them with dynos so I've spent serious $$$ trying to get it straightened out. I think maybe the last guy has figured it out - he says the MAF sensor sends erratic signals below about 70% open throttle (standing still on a dyno of course) so the ECU doesn't know what to do. He thinks it's because the airflow is turbulent (or at least not consistent) because of the bends and folds in the plumbing where the MAF is. His suggestions were to re-fabricate the intake plumbing so the MAF is in a straight section or to go to a speed density tune (for another $500+).
So I was wondering: 1) what are the possible downsides with a SD tune, i.e., why isn't it the default? 2) Is there a cheaper, simpler fix like just moving the MAF or getting one with different specs? By the way, the way I have it is where the Vortech installation manual shows it to be.
So Phatasp, did you go to SD because of similar problems? Where exactly did you have your MAF - on the air box or at the outlet end of the accordion section? M6, did you get your problem worked out? What did you do?
Thanks in advance for any help!
I am looking for that silky smooth drive-ability mentioned in another thread - not maximum horsepower. I've been to 4 different tuners multiple times, 3 of them with dynos so I've spent serious $$$ trying to get it straightened out. I think maybe the last guy has figured it out - he says the MAF sensor sends erratic signals below about 70% open throttle (standing still on a dyno of course) so the ECU doesn't know what to do. He thinks it's because the airflow is turbulent (or at least not consistent) because of the bends and folds in the plumbing where the MAF is. His suggestions were to re-fabricate the intake plumbing so the MAF is in a straight section or to go to a speed density tune (for another $500+).
So I was wondering: 1) what are the possible downsides with a SD tune, i.e., why isn't it the default? 2) Is there a cheaper, simpler fix like just moving the MAF or getting one with different specs? By the way, the way I have it is where the Vortech installation manual shows it to be.
So Phatasp, did you go to SD because of similar problems? Where exactly did you have your MAF - on the air box or at the outlet end of the accordion section? M6, did you get your problem worked out? What did you do?
Thanks in advance for any help!
