ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

Let the **** talking begin. Has anyone used one of these? 38mm v-band gate? I would like some feedback here. No I didn't ask if I should be scared to buy a cheesedick wastegate or if I'd be better off spending the money on a tial. Yes I know an american made high dollar unit would be better. I'm asking if anyone has used one. Also, has anyone personally seen them fail? Just using pure logical thought, as long as they're not known to immediately fail ( I haven't heard one fail story YET), you can literally buy FIVE of these for the price of a tial equivalent, FIVE of them. They're 49$ shipped to my door on ebay right now. Why would i not buy two of these (so I have a spare) for less than half of one tial? Not to mention since I am a machinist I will take it apart and check stem to guide clearance and lap the valve and make sure everything is half *** good before i run it. Assuming it has good seat contact and adequate guide clearance so I know its not going to stick shut, whats the worst that could happen? a diaphragm comes apart? In which case I utilize my spare... Lets hear it boys...

tripblackls1

iTrader: (11)

Worse that could happen is it not open , overboost and blow your motor , seen it hundreds of times , on the flip side I personally dislike tial, do a Google search on wastegates to find which one you want but either way a good one is going to cost some coin

ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

The only reason it would seize and not open is inadequate stem to guide clearance, Ill check that and hone the guide if necessary. I have done a few Google searches on these and not found any fail stories yet. And there are fail-safes for over-boosting not to mention id be keeping a close eye on the boost gauge. I appreciate your insight but if you don't have personal feedback from using the said wastegate then your reply is not useful to me, with all due respect. Thanks anyway

no1izspeshl

iTrader: (19)

I am almost positive mine is an EMUSA. I noticed nothing out of the ordinary. Only issue I had was finding another WG spring to go up a few PSI rather than a lot. I got a 6# and my other choice from them was 15#..

ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

Thank you sir exactly what I'm looking for, and what are some details on your setup?

ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

more replies like that guy ^^^

k_cash1432

iTrader: (9)

I Have had no problems running mine in my eclipse for the last 4 years. I have my springs set up for 12# but i see 14# on my guage other than that i would recomend it for a cheap project.

ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

Thats what i like to hear. And to me my friend, every project is a cheap project lol untill i win the lotto. Money isn't easily obtained these days, and even when it is why waste it when you can buy the same thing for a fraction of the cost. A penny saved is a penny earned. Thanks sir!

k_cash1432

iTrader: (9)

yep no problem if you need the instructions i have them in an email i can dig them up for you. Im pretty sure that i bought a 8# WG and it came with all the springs to go up to 12#, but like i said thats what my guage says. The WG is referanced off the compressor and my guage is hooked up to the back of the manifold. If you got any other questions PM me i have built several "budget" turbo builds for friends looking to do a turbo 5.3 in my 95 bird next summer.

stangtrader

iTrader: (2)

I have one but haven't really put it to the test yet. Ebay gates work fine. I had the old hks 50mm knock off on my old Turbo fox and had no issues what so ever. Friend has the same one 5 years later trapping in the 140s.I inspected mine in and out. Everything looked good. Holds pressure, valve seat has a good seal and all.still need to test spring pressure but I'm really not worried. A wastegate is a wastegate is a wastegate.definitely agree why spend 5x as much for a name. Its funny to me cause people talk down ebay stuff but they go out and buy iPhones and say there the best thing. Funny thing is there made in China,south Korea and Thailand
Good food for thought.

ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

Thanks man I appreciate it Ill keep that in mind! and good luck on your turbo 5.3 bird project!

ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

I like the way you think my friend. Your helpful insight is much appreciated!

killernoodle

I have a pair of emusa 38mm vband wastegates, one is going on my car, one is already on my brother's 240sx. I disassembled them both, they are well made and look like the real deal. They have stainless hot parts, the aluminum is well machined and the diaphragm looks high quality. Overall I'd say that if you are going to get ebay parts, the better emusa stuff is probably the way to go. Much cheaper than tial, and if it works then it works.

I'm going to be using one of their blowoff valves as well on my car. Again, it looks very well made considering the price.

ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

Good to know. I think I'll get one of their blow off valves also they look nice. Are you putting yours on your cts-v in your avatar? That's what mine will be going on, My 05 stealth grey v1 with a tc78...

KILLER-LS1

iTrader: (18)

you sir, are wrong.

Do you know what the diaphragm of that waste gate is made out of?
Quality wastegates use a nomex/kevlar blend, chinese do not (they use a silicone blend)
Do you know how the valve is made?
Turbosmart has a 1 piece nitrided coated stainless valve, Tial uses a 2 piece stainless valve. I don't even want to know what a chinese valve is made from, and you will NEVER know. Remember, all stainless is not created equal. There are different stainless alloys, not to mention the manufacturing process....
Do you know what the valve guide to valve stem clearance is?
It is pretty well known that the tolerances in the chinese stuff can vary from unit to unit. Why risk getting a waste gate that the valve might bind in the valve guide?
Do you know what alloy of metal is used in the base?
Stainless again, like I said earlier, there are different alloys. what do you think happens when a cheap alloy has different expansion properties than the valve seat or the valve itself. you run into interference pretty quickly.
Do you know the flow characteristics of the housing design are?
The shape and design of the housing are critical for flow. Its just like the bowl of a cylinder head. A chinese head still works, but it won't make as much power compared to an expensive american head.

Answers in RED. I just went through a training seminar on waste gates.

I have actually taken apart and used chinese, Turbosmart and Tial products.

I used to run a chinese turbo, china WG, china BOV. Then my china WG seized shut, causing my stock LS1 to boost to 25+ psi. It cracked the block in 4 places, broke 6 pistons, and bent 3 rods.

I now use a Turbosmart waste gate, and a Tial BOV, but after looking at the Turbosmart BOV, I may even switch that out.

You get what you pay for, and if you've never had experience with a product, don't make claims that you can't back up.

This is a technical forum, not a opinion based forum. If you have something to say, make sure you can back it up. Just trying to help out the OP by helping him avoid a potentially expensive mistake.

p.s. Im not saying all chinese stuff is bad, I own an iPhone and know its from china. But when my iPhone dies, thats it. Worst case when a waste gate breaks? Sticks shut, over boosts engine, and destroys engine and leaks fluid out while you are driving. Hot oil and coolant all over the tires at 100+mph sending you into a wall.

When my engine broke, it cracked the block into the coolant jacket and lifted a head, and dumped coolant everywhere. THANK GOD i still had control of the car, and was able to coast off the freeway.

KILLER-LS1

iTrader: (18)

Also, I'm surprised that you work with cylinder heads and went to SAM, but don't see how a well built WG can be better.

Do you do any CNC work? Depending on the alloy of aluminum, the casting procedure (green sand cast, white sand cast, permanent mold cast, die cast, hot isostatic pressure cast, etc) and the heat treating properties, it will be apparent when cutting through the material. just further proof, that all aluminum isn't the same, and all cast stainless isn't the same.

stangtrader

iTrader: (2)

I fully understand your point and I do know materials will be different and same with construction. But for a lot of us we can't afford to buy the high dollar stuff right now due to the economy. If proper care is taken to inspect the wastegate for defects and potential problems then the biggest thing to worry about would be the diaphragm,which iirc the tial is identical to the emusa one but better materials. Other than that I don't see a reason for a normal street car to spend the money,however care should be put in to inspecting parts before use just like with high dollar
stuff. Sucks to hear what happened with your motor I bet that was a scary situation.

ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

I fully understand how a good American waste-gate can be better than a Chinese equivalent that costs 1/5th the price. I never said the 50 dollar china gate is every bit as good as an expensive American gate. I just don't know if i can justify spending FIVE times as much for something that, for all practical purposes could serve its purpose just as well.

I am a cylinder head machinist, and understand stem to guide clearances thoroughly. I know that the two main causes (and in most cases, the only possible causes) of a seized valve are inadequate stem to guide clearance, or inadequate valve seat contact. One of the seat's main purposes is to take the heat out of the valve, If there is inadequate seat contact, It cannot do this job of removing the heat from the valve, effectively causing the valve to expand excessively, In which case can eliminate the pre-set stem to guide clearance, causing the valve to seize. If the valve seat contact is adequate, the valve can still potentially seize if the valve stem to guide clearance isnt set up properly. If the stem to guide clearance is too tight, once the engine gets to running temperature, and the valve(s) heat up and expand, the heat expansion in the stem can eliminate the clearance, and cause interference, effectively causing the valve to seize.

I also understand that there are certain stem to guide clearance preferences for every application I.e. power adder vs. n/a and a 3/8 diameter valve vs 5/16 diameter valve, etc. For instance, a supercharged nitro methane burning engine (top fuel) requires substantially more stem to guide clearance than a high efficiency naturally aspirated engine. I have built quite a few sets of Alan Johnson nostalgia top fuel heads, That require about .0035" clearance on the intakes, and .0040" clearance on the exhaust valves. On the other side of the coin, we build some naturally aspirated engines, with 5/16 valvestems, that i can set stem to guide clearance as tight as .0008" on the intake and .0012" on the exhaust and they will go out and run for a season without a single hiccup.

I will probably call tial or turbosmart or synapse (some sort of quality wastegate manufacturer) and get some stem to guide clearance specs, so i can measure the china gate and compare, and ill either lap or prussian blue the valve and seat and make sure there's nothing crazy there. If stem clearance is tight ill hone the guide as necessary as said before. As long as stem clearance is good and seat contact is good, there should be little to no chance for catastrophic failure.

Aside from all that nonsense, There is countless people that have used these for sustained periods of time without fail so that alone is enough for me lol ill defend to my death your right to call me stupid for that one but people have proven that these things do their intended job so i honestly cant ask for more. Nonetheless killer ls1 the information you gave is absolutely right, and i am fully aware that a good USA made gate will be theoretically better in many ways than a china unit, but as stated before I dont know that i can justify spending five times the money on a product that (with a bit of inspection and possibly minor modification) will give me the same end result. That said, to each his own!!

ssinister550

iTrader: (8)

And furthermore I do not do any cnc work but I do do alot of hand portwork on cylinder heads and intake manifolds and your absolutely right, some materials are obviously harder than others, this is mostly apparent when doing valvejobs/cutting valveseats, although most of the heads i deal with are race heads with copper beryllium seats which are very easy to cut, I also frequently do valvejobs on heads with hardened ductile iron seats, and although most iron seats are supposedly made of the same alloys, some are much harder to cut than others. The same is apparent when turning valves in the lathe to custom sizes, some stainless valves cut with ease while others simply tear up tool bits. I'm no metallurgist, but i definitely understand there is an infinite number of alloys that can be portrayed to the uneducated, as the same material.

tripblackls1

iTrader: (11)

With all due respect but I'm sorry if you can't afford 200-300$ for a wastegate that will save you a ton of time and money in the long run then you really have no business putting FI on a car
I'm all for saving a money as much as possible and have used a lot of eBay parts in my builds but why risk a motor and a few weekends of wrench time over a 100$ savings
Hell even if you decide to rebuild the cheapo with tial parts then your 30-40$ added to the cost for the parts and plus a couple hours rebuilding , inspecting , measuring , and well if you value you time at all then you pretty much have invested the same amount of $ in the cheapo that a quality one would have cost