the highest RWHP on a LS1????
03-17-2004, 09:32 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by VietRacingGuy
is it weird? 6 cylinder engine can produce more power than an 8 cylinder engine.
if money is not an object, then which engine can produce the most power. Ford 4.6 or GM LS1 or supra 6 cylinder or skyline???
how could a small engine produce more power than big engine??? supra 6 cylinder can produce over 1000 HP just as the LS1 cars did.
is it because it has twin cam and 4 valves per cylinder? higher tech?
if money is not an object, then which engine can produce the most power. Ford 4.6 or GM LS1 or supra 6 cylinder or skyline???
how could a small engine produce more power than big engine??? supra 6 cylinder can produce over 1000 HP just as the LS1 cars did.
is it because it has twin cam and 4 valves per cylinder? higher tech?
- The ls1 was not designed by GM as a boost motor. It was designed to be NA with high compression. It works with boost, but more R&D needs to be done before it will make insane power levels. The fact is it makes very good power with just minor mods and low boost. You don't see any na 4/6 bangers running 10s with just head/cam work.
- HP is not the end all be all when it comes to power. Motors that rev really high tend to have inflated HP #s (dyno queens). As and example, it takes only 650 lbs of tq to make 1052hp at 8500rpms, but it takes 850 lbs of tq to make the same HP at 6500rpms. Just remember that HP is a calculation based on tq. Smaller motors are obvoiusly easier to rev high + the ls1 is not on the cutting edge of valvetrain technology yet (but this is also what makes it pretty easy to mod).
03-17-2004, 09:49 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by cr133r
And to think, it still dates back to a Ford Fairmont chassis... Hmmm
Just pushing your buttons on this one bud... Seriously though, its worth the 6k for all the upgrades, I just would have never though I'd EVER see a Mustang that cost over 30k without Saleen/Roush stickers all over it.
PS I've owned 3 Mustangs, 1 Camaro, 1 Supra and a ZR-1 along the way, I don't dislike any of em...
Just pushing your buttons on this one bud... Seriously though, its worth the 6k for all the upgrades, I just would have never though I'd EVER see a Mustang that cost over 30k without Saleen/Roush stickers all over it.
PS I've owned 3 Mustangs, 1 Camaro, 1 Supra and a ZR-1 along the way, I don't dislike any of em...
VietRacingGuy: Supra and skyline motors definitely can not, or atleast have not produced more power than V8 cars have, given the same amount of money sunk into them.. While the LS1's are somewhat lagging behind due to issues with keeping the heads on the block under heavy boost, V8's are practically untouchable for power produced and the powerband made, especially on a street car. The most power street supras running on pump gas (without meth injection) are JUST barely cresting 650-700 RWHP, and they are literally timebombs at that power level on pump gas. There are big V8 cars making 250-300 RWHP more than them, on pump gas, with a safe fat tune, with a much better powerband. The fastest supra street cars are going low to mid 9's @ 150, and they arn't exactly fun to drive with meager powerbands..
03-17-2004, 10:20 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by VietRacingGuy
toyota supra and nissan skyline can get up to 1200 HP, i wonder what is the highest HP the LS1 powered car can get up to?
i never see any z28 or t/a with over 1000 HP
i never see any z28 or t/a with over 1000 HP
03-17-2004, 10:50 PM
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"talking down"
you should not be afraid of a Question.
psi for psi there's no question.
the 2jz had its predecessors all making less hp and being less sucessful..
imagine ford has 2 more tries to improve on the 03 cobra engine, that's what a rb26deTT is like.
time and R & D. Look at the small block chevys, they make 1200hp plain easier than any import production engine ever has, why?
besides having more CI and cylinders, it's also got alot of time of people tinkering with it.
the ls1 hasn't been involved in SO MUCH racing/drag racing like those japanese motors (or 4.6 Fords), NOT YET at least.
but if your question is about POTENTIAL, then there is no question.
you still have 8 second ls1 doorslammers, with a more realistic interior than those EXTREME and RARE examples you see RICERS quote.
for example..take the GTR-700. it spins up to 12krpm...it makes about 1200fwhp...it runs mid-eights no radials.. ect ect.
he easily has 250k into that car, with plastic windows, no interior, no lights AKA a car that only sees a TRAILER and a RACETRACK.
MEanwhile you can drop a ls1 into say....a gutted 3rd gen, build it spray it and get SIMILAR results MUCH MUCH less.
same for a 5.0 stang...how many 8 second 5.0s out there? too many to mention.
you should not be afraid of a Question.
psi for psi there's no question.
the 2jz had its predecessors all making less hp and being less sucessful..
imagine ford has 2 more tries to improve on the 03 cobra engine, that's what a rb26deTT is like.
time and R & D. Look at the small block chevys, they make 1200hp plain easier than any import production engine ever has, why?
besides having more CI and cylinders, it's also got alot of time of people tinkering with it.
the ls1 hasn't been involved in SO MUCH racing/drag racing like those japanese motors (or 4.6 Fords), NOT YET at least.
but if your question is about POTENTIAL, then there is no question.
you still have 8 second ls1 doorslammers, with a more realistic interior than those EXTREME and RARE examples you see RICERS quote.
for example..take the GTR-700. it spins up to 12krpm...it makes about 1200fwhp...it runs mid-eights no radials.. ect ect.
he easily has 250k into that car, with plastic windows, no interior, no lights AKA a car that only sees a TRAILER and a RACETRACK.
MEanwhile you can drop a ls1 into say....a gutted 3rd gen, build it spray it and get SIMILAR results MUCH MUCH less.
same for a 5.0 stang...how many 8 second 5.0s out there? too many to mention.
03-18-2004, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TApimp
smaller motors like boost better and like stated before they can rev alot higher.
I have to disagree on this one. Please elaborate on "like"
Is this as opposed to dislike?
Any motor regardless of displacement can be forced induction, and will respond well to boost. True, large displacement V8s will typically not be revved high due to
more mass in the rotating assembly, but with the proper parts can rev very high. I guess the idea here is that you don't need to rev high, as the larger engine will always produce more torque which means higher horsepower at a given RPM v.s. the smaller displacement counterpart.
03-18-2004, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by grooves12
How you can compare results of an engine that has nearly FIFTY YEARS of aftermarket and racing development to one that has been around for around 5 years is WAAAAAAY out there.
Fuel Injection tuning and development is still in its infancy, and most of the LS1 motors that are out there are still basically running "upgraded" stock parts. There are very few race-developed parts available for the LS1... whereas the big HP small blocks are running things like Tunnel Rams, HUUUUUGE roots-blowers, Cylinder heads developed for nothing but all0out racing (like Winston Cup SB2 heads or even the myriad of 220+ CC intake runner aftermarket pieces.)
The fact that the LS1 is already as capable as it is... shows just how good of an engine it is. I think that once the aftermarket for the LS1 matures... and the racing teams start developing parts for them, we will easily see results similar to those of the SBC if it doesn't surpass them significantly.
Fuel Injection tuning and development is still in its infancy, and most of the LS1 motors that are out there are still basically running "upgraded" stock parts. There are very few race-developed parts available for the LS1... whereas the big HP small blocks are running things like Tunnel Rams, HUUUUUGE roots-blowers, Cylinder heads developed for nothing but all0out racing (like Winston Cup SB2 heads or even the myriad of 220+ CC intake runner aftermarket pieces.)
The fact that the LS1 is already as capable as it is... shows just how good of an engine it is. I think that once the aftermarket for the LS1 matures... and the racing teams start developing parts for them, we will easily see results similar to those of the SBC if it doesn't surpass them significantly.
03-18-2004, 11:44 AM
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All engine components are engineered and designed to withstand calculated forces, and parts will all break at some point, be they Chevy or Ford. Cool car though.
Last edited by stealth; 03-18-2004 at 02:16 PM.
They blatantly said 99 Cobra in the video, thats not even a forged motor in that car... 
03-18-2004, 11:34 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by C5AJ
Sorry,
I have to disagree on this one. Please elaborate on "like"
Is this as opposed to dislike?
Any motor regardless of displacement can be forced induction, and will respond well to boost. True, large displacement V8s will typically not be revved high due to
more mass in the rotating assembly, but with the proper parts can rev very high. I guess the idea here is that you don't need to rev high, as the larger engine will always produce more torque which means higher horsepower at a given RPM v.s. the smaller displacement counterpart.
I have to disagree on this one. Please elaborate on "like"
Is this as opposed to dislike?
Any motor regardless of displacement can be forced induction, and will respond well to boost. True, large displacement V8s will typically not be revved high due to
more mass in the rotating assembly, but with the proper parts can rev very high. I guess the idea here is that you don't need to rev high, as the larger engine will always produce more torque which means higher horsepower at a given RPM v.s. the smaller displacement counterpart.
in KOTH classses here in TX they run 1/8th mile.
several 700+ ci big block motors with ALOT of nitrous 800+ shot worth of juice.
all of them beat by a 347 with a single 106mm turbo in a mustang. fastest its been is a 4.55@167 was the mph i beleive.
other example
our tech out in our shop has a 5.3l extended cab chevy truck. it has a d1 procharger on it.
one of our customers has a 6.0l short bed non ex. cab with a d1 charger also. both of them make the same numbers at the tires.
the 5.3 beats the 6.0l truck all day long. 5.3l revs alot faster then the 6.0...
03-19-2004, 07:13 AM
#54
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:)
Originally Posted by TApimp
i have two examples
in KOTH classses here in TX they run 1/8th mile.
several 700+ ci big block motors with ALOT of nitrous 800+ shot worth of juice.
all of them beat by a 347 with a single 106mm turbo in a mustang. fastest its been is a 4.55@167 was the mph i beleive.
other example
our tech out in our shop has a 5.3l extended cab chevy truck. it has a d1 procharger on it.
one of our customers has a 6.0l short bed non ex. cab with a d1 charger also. both of them make the same numbers at the tires.
the 5.3 beats the 6.0l truck all day long. 5.3l revs alot faster then the 6.0...
in KOTH classses here in TX they run 1/8th mile.
several 700+ ci big block motors with ALOT of nitrous 800+ shot worth of juice.
all of them beat by a 347 with a single 106mm turbo in a mustang. fastest its been is a 4.55@167 was the mph i beleive.
other example
our tech out in our shop has a 5.3l extended cab chevy truck. it has a d1 procharger on it.
one of our customers has a 6.0l short bed non ex. cab with a d1 charger also. both of them make the same numbers at the tires.
the 5.3 beats the 6.0l truck all day long. 5.3l revs alot faster then the 6.0...
Example one is apples to oranges, only one is turbocharged.
Example two is apples to oranges since the engines that you are looking at most likely have different mods, let alone that they may be running different boost levels.
Maybe you guys in Texas know how to defeat the laws of Physics, or maybe everyone should buy a 500 cc engine,
or better yet a 100 cc engine since it "likes" boost better.
Actually that new Briggs & Stratton Quantum engine looks like it would be a good match up with a T-88.
This has gone way off topic, if you want to continue this please P.M. me or e-mail and I will help you understand some stuff.
03-19-2004, 01:00 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by stealth
Let's start a horsepower list, based on submitted dyno charts. Hell, there are lists for much less interesting topics.
Everyone knows that APC decals are good for 15 whp on a 4cyl, but slightly less in 8cyl applications!
03-19-2004, 07:02 PM
#57
Here are some dyno numbers from MTI for the Supra/Vette shootout that c133r was talking about. Looks to be some pretty heathly supras in that crowd, one vette and a viper...
1) Tim Iacoli '94 Black Supra 829.2rwhp
2) Eric Clyton '95 Black Supra 752.0rwhp
3) Rich Baratta '94 White Supra 429.3rwhp
4) Mike Carlin '98 Silver Supra 754.2rwhp
5) Mike Gibbs '94 Red Supra 357.0rwhp
6) Peter "Web of lies" Blach '98 Black Supra 1,131.6rwhp
7) Ryan Hoskin '97 Red Supra 604.8rwhp
8) Stacy Barnett '98 Red Vette 1,013.0rwhp **At 4000RPM** (MTI Removed the car from the dyno, from what I've heard)
9) Jason Styles '00 Black Viper 1,200rwhp/1,200rwtq **Pegged at 3300 RPM**
10) David Stirra '94 Red Supra 643.0rwhp
11) Larry Prebis '93 Black & Yellow Supra 1,007.7rwhp
12) Dana Westover '94 Whit Supra 836.3rwhp
13) Ryan Woon '98 Silver Supra 891.3rwhp
Pulled this off the Texas forum. Can't wait to see the race results posted.
1) Tim Iacoli '94 Black Supra 829.2rwhp
2) Eric Clyton '95 Black Supra 752.0rwhp
3) Rich Baratta '94 White Supra 429.3rwhp
4) Mike Carlin '98 Silver Supra 754.2rwhp
5) Mike Gibbs '94 Red Supra 357.0rwhp
6) Peter "Web of lies" Blach '98 Black Supra 1,131.6rwhp
7) Ryan Hoskin '97 Red Supra 604.8rwhp
8) Stacy Barnett '98 Red Vette 1,013.0rwhp **At 4000RPM** (MTI Removed the car from the dyno, from what I've heard)
9) Jason Styles '00 Black Viper 1,200rwhp/1,200rwtq **Pegged at 3300 RPM**
10) David Stirra '94 Red Supra 643.0rwhp
11) Larry Prebis '93 Black & Yellow Supra 1,007.7rwhp
12) Dana Westover '94 Whit Supra 836.3rwhp
13) Ryan Woon '98 Silver Supra 891.3rwhp
Pulled this off the Texas forum. Can't wait to see the race results posted.
03-19-2004, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by frcefed98
Here are some dyno numbers from MTI for the Supra/Vette shootout that c133r was talking about. Looks to be some pretty heathly supras in that crowd, one vette and a viper...
1) Tim Iacoli '94 Black Supra 829.2rwhp
2) Eric Clyton '95 Black Supra 752.0rwhp
3) Rich Baratta '94 White Supra 429.3rwhp
4) Mike Carlin '98 Silver Supra 754.2rwhp
5) Mike Gibbs '94 Red Supra 357.0rwhp
6) Peter "Web of lies" Blach '98 Black Supra 1,131.6rwhp
7) Ryan Hoskin '97 Red Supra 604.8rwhp
8) Stacy Barnett '98 Red Vette 1,013.0rwhp **At 4000RPM** (MTI Removed the car from the dyno, from what I've heard)
9) Jason Styles '00 Black Viper 1,200rwhp/1,200rwtq **Pegged at 3300 RPM**
10) David Stirra '94 Red Supra 643.0rwhp
11) Larry Prebis '93 Black & Yellow Supra 1,007.7rwhp
12) Dana Westover '94 Whit Supra 836.3rwhp
13) Ryan Woon '98 Silver Supra 891.3rwhp
Pulled this off the Texas forum. Can't wait to see the race results posted.
1) Tim Iacoli '94 Black Supra 829.2rwhp
2) Eric Clyton '95 Black Supra 752.0rwhp
3) Rich Baratta '94 White Supra 429.3rwhp
4) Mike Carlin '98 Silver Supra 754.2rwhp
5) Mike Gibbs '94 Red Supra 357.0rwhp
6) Peter "Web of lies" Blach '98 Black Supra 1,131.6rwhp
7) Ryan Hoskin '97 Red Supra 604.8rwhp
8) Stacy Barnett '98 Red Vette 1,013.0rwhp **At 4000RPM** (MTI Removed the car from the dyno, from what I've heard)
9) Jason Styles '00 Black Viper 1,200rwhp/1,200rwtq **Pegged at 3300 RPM**
10) David Stirra '94 Red Supra 643.0rwhp
11) Larry Prebis '93 Black & Yellow Supra 1,007.7rwhp
12) Dana Westover '94 Whit Supra 836.3rwhp
13) Ryan Woon '98 Silver Supra 891.3rwhp
Pulled this off the Texas forum. Can't wait to see the race results posted.
UPDATE: Apparantly its because the dyno is an old model and has a wheel speed limit of 160MPH instead of the one we use here in Tucson that can go to 200MPH... If you exceed 160 it shuts it down cold, which is right around 4800RPM for the car.
Last edited by cr133r; 03-19-2004 at 08:22 PM.
03-19-2004, 09:14 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by cr133r
UPDATE: Apparantly its because the dyno is an old model and has a wheel speed limit of 160MPH instead of the one we use here in Tucson that can go to 200MPH... If you exceed 160 it shuts it down cold, which is right around 4800RPM for the car.
Rick
cr133r That is awesome. I guess it's time to upgrade their dyno huh. That vette is bad