Best way to start a build for my goals?
05-07-2013, 06:28 AM
#1
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Best way to start a build for my goals? Guess I'm trying to put my OCD engineer mindedness at ease but I've been having a hard time deciding how to exactly start with my project.
I know I want a 408 turbo build with the goal of low 9's to high 8's. This will be going into a 1983 Trans Am.
6L iron block long blocks with around 130-200K in them are going for around $1800 here at the JY and that's not even including intake and wire harness. I'm thinking I'd be better off just buying a good used block and go from there but would it be better to buy a good complete LQ9 or LY6 for around $2k (after shipping) off ebay and after doing the block work, just freshen up the heads and sell the intake?
The last time I performed a build like this, I bought a long block and felt I wasted a good chunk of money since the only thing left stock on the motor was the block and even that was iron sleeved by darton, bored out and decked...I literally could have bought a dart block for cheaper and had it final honed.
So I'm asking people here with more experience with a similar build, what did you do and would you have done it differently?
I tried searching for similar problems but prices have varied so much throughout the years and different parts of the country it's just too hard to get a fix on it.
I know I want a 408 turbo build with the goal of low 9's to high 8's. This will be going into a 1983 Trans Am.
6L iron block long blocks with around 130-200K in them are going for around $1800 here at the JY and that's not even including intake and wire harness. I'm thinking I'd be better off just buying a good used block and go from there but would it be better to buy a good complete LQ9 or LY6 for around $2k (after shipping) off ebay and after doing the block work, just freshen up the heads and sell the intake?
The last time I performed a build like this, I bought a long block and felt I wasted a good chunk of money since the only thing left stock on the motor was the block and even that was iron sleeved by darton, bored out and decked...I literally could have bought a dart block for cheaper and had it final honed.
So I'm asking people here with more experience with a similar build, what did you do and would you have done it differently?
I tried searching for similar problems but prices have varied so much throughout the years and different parts of the country it's just too hard to get a fix on it.
05-07-2013, 07:28 AM
#2
Best way to start is to know your budget. Why you set on a 408? If you are concerned about the cost of a 6.0 (that is high) buy a 5.3 and make a 5.7L out of it , stock crank and good rods and pistons. Easily meet your goals and more cost efficient. A proper setup will get you the same as a 408 will.... with a smaller turbo. I guess its your wallet so..... whatever you want to do.
05-07-2013, 09:36 AM
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I like the 408 too but your gonna have some money tied up in a forged 408 like with a 4340 steel crank good rods and piston and then heads. Me personally I like just running stock motors and boost them and have fun instead of blowing a bunch of money on unnecessary parts. But in the end it all on you and how deep you pockets are and your goals.
05-07-2013, 11:00 AM
#4
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I like the 408 too but your gonna have some money tied up in a forged 408 like with a 4340 steel crank good rods and piston and then heads. Me personally I like just running stock motors and boost them and have fun instead of blowing a bunch of money on unnecessary parts. But in the end it all on you and how deep you pockets are and your goals.
05-07-2013, 11:34 AM
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FROM YB:
if a budget deal, I'd look for a 6.0L crank and block (5.3 will get you your goals too, just take a little more boost), then get froged rods and pistons. 317 heads seem to do the job just fine (and cheap too). Good turbo cam & 80mm or bigger turbo (w/correct turbine side).
Bigger budget and plans for deeper 8 sec passes, get an LSx block and don't look back. Just my $0.02. Good luck.
if a budget deal, I'd look for a 6.0L crank and block (5.3 will get you your goals too, just take a little more boost), then get froged rods and pistons. 317 heads seem to do the job just fine (and cheap too). Good turbo cam & 80mm or bigger turbo (w/correct turbine side).
Bigger budget and plans for deeper 8 sec passes, get an LSx block and don't look back. Just my $0.02. Good luck.
05-07-2013, 11:50 AM
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I'm not even so sure that I'm stuck on the 408 anymore...part of my problem is with over thinking these things instead of just doing. As far as budget goes, I don't mind spending a little extra scratch on good parts but if I can get to where I want to go without spending $2500-$3000 extra than that's even better
05-07-2013, 11:55 AM
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FROM YB:
if a budget deal, I'd look for a 6.0L crank and block (5.3 will get you your goals too, just take a little more boost), then get froged rods and pistons. 317 heads seem to do the job just fine (and cheap too). Good turbo cam & 80mm or bigger turbo (w/correct turbine side).
Bigger budget and plans for deeper 8 sec passes, get an LSx block and don't look back. Just my $0.02. Good luck.
if a budget deal, I'd look for a 6.0L crank and block (5.3 will get you your goals too, just take a little more boost), then get froged rods and pistons. 317 heads seem to do the job just fine (and cheap too). Good turbo cam & 80mm or bigger turbo (w/correct turbine side).
Bigger budget and plans for deeper 8 sec passes, get an LSx block and don't look back. Just my $0.02. Good luck.
Budget is basically what can I do to get there and what do I HAVE to do. I'm not even stuck with doing a 408. If I could get a short block for a reasonable price around here I would have already done it. Should I just buy the 6L iron block at summit for $675 and go from there?
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05-07-2013, 12:05 PM
#8
Why are you stuck on a 6.0 block? You can buy a complete 5.3 for $300. Send the block to a machine shop. Buy some off the shelf 5.7 pistons, rods, stock crank.. You will have a bad *** short block for less than $2k. And no one will even know the difference between cubes.
05-07-2013, 02:55 PM
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Why are you stuck on a 6.0 block? You can buy a complete 5.3 for $300. Send the block to a machine shop. Buy some off the shelf 5.7 pistons, rods, stock crank.. You will have a bad *** short block for less than $2k. And no one will even know the difference between cubes.
05-07-2013, 04:15 PM
#14
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Otherwise: http://stores.ebay.com/LKQonline/_i....=&_ipg=&_sop=1
not $300, but already pulled and shipped to your door for under $600.
The way I see it, Time is Money, right? The more money you have (or leftover money in this case) the faster you can get a project rolling. If you have to save another $600 for pistons, or $2500 for a builder to put your engine together, balance, etc, or another $500 for the Methanol Injection, or $300 for Intercooler, or XXX for XXX... you're project can become stalled. It's going to be expensive enough for the supporting systems, if you can free up $2500 and put that towards them right now, it may make the project go faster. AND if you blow the engine, grab another for $600ish.
For a few bucks more, get the 2005 up motor with the floating wrist pins and stronger rods.
05-07-2013, 08:20 PM
#15
Also usually the salvage yard ones like that come with intakes, TB's, coil packs, sensors, You can sell the stuff like intake and oil pan or whatever else you dont use and have basically nothing into it. Theres a few other ones on there for $500. also. Also call around to the local yards and tell them you want a core. A friend worked at one and they said they ship them all off to scrap if they have high miles or something minor wrong. They will sell you a core for cheap if you ask usually......like really cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-04-SILVERADO-1500-ENGINE-5-3L-VIN-T-OR-VIN-Z-8TH-DIGIT-/400443272550?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d3c476d66&vxp=mtr
05-07-2013, 08:22 PM
#16
I agree that the stock type motors can be pushed to low 9's but I still have no idea why people think a 5.3 or 6.0 will make the same power as built 408's+.
You push the bigger cube motors and they make a lot more than the small cubes. Then you can run a bigger cube with less boost/stress and make good power. Last a long time.
My personal car is a 427 /88 combo. Makes good power off boost and 1000 through a t400 at only 18lbs. Runs low 8's easilly with little stress.
You push the bigger cube motors and they make a lot more than the small cubes. Then you can run a bigger cube with less boost/stress and make good power. Last a long time.
My personal car is a 427 /88 combo. Makes good power off boost and 1000 through a t400 at only 18lbs. Runs low 8's easilly with little stress.
05-07-2013, 08:53 PM
#17
I agree that the stock type motors can be pushed to low 9's but I still have no idea why people think a 5.3 or 6.0 will make the same power as built 408's+.
You push the bigger cube motors and they make a lot more than the small cubes. Then you can run a bigger cube with less boost/stress and make good power. Last a long time.
My personal car is a 427 /88 combo. Makes good power off boost and 1000 through a t400 at only 18lbs. Runs low 8's easilly with little stress.
You push the bigger cube motors and they make a lot more than the small cubes. Then you can run a bigger cube with less boost/stress and make good power. Last a long time.
My personal car is a 427 /88 combo. Makes good power off boost and 1000 through a t400 at only 18lbs. Runs low 8's easilly with little stress.
I guess they all like livin' on the age.
05-07-2013, 08:58 PM
#18
I agree that the stock type motors can be pushed to low 9's but I still have no idea why people think a 5.3 or 6.0 will make the same power as built 408's+.
You push the bigger cube motors and they make a lot more than the small cubes. Then you can run a bigger cube with less boost/stress and make good power. Last a long time.
My personal car is a 427 /88 combo. Makes good power off boost and 1000 through a t400 at only 18lbs. Runs low 8's easilly with little stress.
You push the bigger cube motors and they make a lot more than the small cubes. Then you can run a bigger cube with less boost/stress and make good power. Last a long time.
My personal car is a 427 /88 combo. Makes good power off boost and 1000 through a t400 at only 18lbs. Runs low 8's easilly with little stress.
05-07-2013, 09:31 PM
#20
TECH Resident
I agree that the stock type motors can be pushed to low 9's but I still have no idea why people think a 5.3 or 6.0 will make the same power as built 408's+.
You push the bigger cube motors and they make a lot more than the small cubes. Then you can run a bigger cube with less boost/stress and make good power. Last a long time.
My personal car is a 427 /88 combo. Makes good power off boost and 1000 through a t400 at only 18lbs. Runs low 8's easilly with little stress.
You push the bigger cube motors and they make a lot more than the small cubes. Then you can run a bigger cube with less boost/stress and make good power. Last a long time.
My personal car is a 427 /88 combo. Makes good power off boost and 1000 through a t400 at only 18lbs. Runs low 8's easilly with little stress.
There's no doubting that a forged built 408 makes great torque and can meet the goal safely, but is it worth the extra $3500 to get there? I'd take that $3500 and put it towards other supporting things that I'd need like the Transmission/rearend. Low 9's is low 9's, but if I can get there and save a few bucks, I'm all for it. Would be different if I were doing this professionally, and someone else (sponsor) was buying the parts. Ha.
1000hp @18psi is good. True.
But...
"The combination of 7-psi springs and the manual boost controller would only allow us to reach 15 psi. While this may seem like a lot of boost on the stock short-block, the 900hp mark had come and gone, and the motor was just laughing at us."http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...#ixzz2SfFkBNVl
And that was in a 4.8L motor.
Just sayin... bunch of ways to get to the same end... I like getting there and having money left for gas.