denmah

iTrader: (2)

i had alot of questions on this lately and figured it would be easy if i just did a quick video.

if you are familiar with hptuners, this feature is available if you are using a custom OS or speed density os

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Cool vid. Good to see a nice explanation.

Tjabo

Awesome video, and props on being appropriately barefooted for filming! Lol

Anyway, after watching this two main thoughts hit me, but they really deal with the comparison between HP Tuners and Tuner Studio, so I won't muck up this thread with them. Instead I'll muck up the comments on your video I guess... haha

EDIT: Okay, I found the size limit for YouTube comments real quick, so I guess I will have to muck up your thread with my two main thoughts from your video after all....

As an MS3 user who has never used HP Tuners:
1) That VE table seems excessively large, and it made me appreciate that the MS guys stopped at 16x16 or whatever it is (with the ability to run two tables if you feel the need, so 16x32 I guess). Do you agree that having this many cells and tables to deal with makes it overly difficult to get your tune dialed in pretty close to the point where the vehicle is running well and the tune is only in need of the final polishing process?

2) Overall, to me it looks like HP Tuners is a lot more cumbersome to deal with than Tuner Studio, albeit I guess all of those cells on all of those tables would really give you a ton of detail in perfecting your tune if you truly did put forth the time and energy to perfect everything that's in there. I just can't really imagine that happening... Looks like about 40 hours worth of tuning time necessary, if not way more than that.

Thoughts?

Thanks again for another kickass vid!!!!

denmah

iTrader: (2)

it is excessively large imo, i am used to 8x8 and 12x12 and 16x16 tables and they do a beautiful job haha

its not terrible though, if you just get it good in the 10lb range you can interpolate down to your tip in and you are usually fine.

i am finding its easier to leave holes in the map or peaks and valleys unintentionally because the map is so large

Tjabo

I can see that happening for sure. Hell, I've left plenty of unintentional "texture" in my MS tables over the years, and as you say, those suckers are extremely simple by comparison.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Once you get used to data logging with HPtuners, and then the subsequent adjustment, it's not bad, and I'm happy we have that much resolution.

Once you hit as many cells as possible, you can go back and copy/paste in the adjustment, then interpolate and smooth the unhit cells.

denmah

iTrader: (2)

it is awesome/annoying at the same time hahha

in my experience, when the air fuel is close with the speed density its easier to adjust by hand, or paste the half %, it overshoots up and down too much, like i said, at least mine does.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

No doubt it can shoot past it especially if you don't setup the exclusions properly. Specifically, getting rid of closed throttle deceleration, or points where you're shifting etc. Some times the data you collect doesn't tell the true story, so you need to go in by hand and change that -10 value to a -3 or -4 since the neighboring cells say that's what it should be. Another thing that can skew your data is the lean deceleration values. I forget the exact term, but it's where it cuts almost all fueling when you decelerate. Either exclude those values from your data, or turn of the table in the tune.

I laugh when I look at some of the tunes out there when people just copy / paste from a log file and wonder why the vehicle drives worse... Instead of a nice smooth timing or fueling table, it looks like a bunch of stelagmites and stelagtites. Once you've done it a few times, it starts to get closer and closer to the end goal, and you can start doing the paste by 1/2% like you mentioned. Then it's just fine tuning if you're really nitkicky.

93camaro_zzz

iTrader: (13)

Nice write-up! I definitely love the RTT option on HPtuners. Just like you said, you can easily lock down a VE table in a short amount of time. Which is a very good thing, because usually when I am tuning my car, I only have a 10 minute window to do WOT tuning, because outside of that, people have probably already started to call the cops to come out and arrest this "Irrespensible street racer". lmao (Of course I live on a private closed course in Mexico, just so everyone knows. )

denmah

iTrader: (2)

DFCO deceleration fuel cutoff, i usually disable that and closed loop when tuning

the truck has no closed loop stuff enabled even when i drive it its totally open so i dont have to worry about that hahha.

im thinking of adding a shitty narrowband back into the downpipe so i can re-enable it for cruising and DFCO to try and improve mileage a tiny bit

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I have one of those in my backyard too... hahahaha! I wonder if we live near the same road.

Thanks for another helpful video Denmah.

helga203

Dude ur awesome . I was wondering how to use that feature.

93camaro_zzz

iTrader: (13)

DFCO will help out your gas mileage a TON if you are street driving it! Even as much as 5mpg is not uncommon from what I have seen.

Tjabo

Man, it never even occurred to me that you can't do wideband closed loop with HP Tuners like you can with MS3 (and all other MS versions *IIRC*)..... PID loop wideband AFR feedback is awesome to say the least. This is a VERY informative thread!

zdawg28

iTrader: (2)

Can you provide the base system, and any options, you have purchased through HP tuners for the system you have just described?

denmah

iTrader: (2)

i have the professional cable and VCM suite
http://www.hptuners.com/order.php

approx 650 dollars

then a wideband (aem uego) approx 190 dollars
and then i purchased 2 (4 credits) licenses for this truck, 200 dollars.
one to license the truck and the other to do the 3bar OS update.

but i have tuned over 50 vehicles with this cable and setup, so if its just for one vehicle it might not be worth it, but if you are going to take the big step, and do your car and some friends. its worth it.

i should mention the cable and initial buy comes with 8 credits.

so you would have enough (4 total) to license and then do the 3 bar speed density upgrade
and still tune 2 cars, or 2 speed density vehicles, with the initial 650 dollars

tonypaul

iTrader: (2)

I know comparing Tunerstudio and HP is like comparing apples and oranges, but in the end is HP really that better in terms of tuning? Im finally getting fairly comfortable tuning my Tunerstudio/Microsquirt after a month of playing with it.

Im wondering if I should try to step up to HP on my next project (no idea what its going to be yet) or just plan on going with Msquirt/MS3/Tunerstudio.....

My biggest complaint with Tunerstudio is that I have found that zero tune/dyno shops around me dont want to mess with Tunerstudio.
My biggest complaint with HP is just the cost, credits/cables/ect. I guess Im spoiled with Tunerstudio. Also it seems a little more intense to learn.

The plus's with Tunerstudio for me - inexpensive, great help/forums/ect, real easy to use.
Plus's with HP is almost every tune/dyno shop uses it.

Just dont know if HP is a good thing for me....

denmah

iTrader: (2)

i think you have to weigh in your options when you are deciding what you want to do with the car. figure out what features and what system will work best for your needs.

its ultimately whatever you are comfortable with.

there really isn't a right or wrong, hell people are still using blow thru carb and putting dizzys on LSX's