Dual meth nozzle placement
07-15-2013, 11:47 AM
#21
I disagree. I'm gonna spray straight methanol, and if it sprays too much, guess what, that just lowers the injector duty cycle. It would be pretty hard to spray TOO much methanol.
07-15-2013, 11:47 AM
#22
Thats a little silly considering you can have you engine run on just methanol (alcohol engine anyone?). The more methanol you can burn instead of gasoline the better in terms of power and engine health. If you mean your fueling can be too rich then certainly, but that is easily adjusted for with proper tuning. If I had the money, every engine I use would be 100% methanol only.
07-15-2013, 06:03 PM
#23
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If I'm not mistaken, methanol will lean out your mixture and we don't want that! Demineralized water is an anti detinant and the two combined are what makes the difference. Latent heat of vapourization reduces intake temps (combination of meth and water being atomized and absorbing heat by change of state) and the added benefit of octane?
07-15-2013, 06:34 PM
#25
You may also want to do some more research if you are targeting 10.0 for your wideband setup.
If I'm not mistaken, methanol will lean out your mixture and we don't want that! Demineralized water is an anti detinant and the two combined are what makes the difference. Latent heat of vapourization reduces intake temps (combination of meth and water being atomized and absorbing heat by change of state) and the added benefit of octane?
07-15-2013, 09:37 PM
#26
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No. There is a specific amount you want for a specific given setup. If this was not true, then why would every single meth injection company have different combos of different sizes nozzles? Anything over the formulated amount you should run is not going to do anything positive for you.
You may also want to do some more research if you are targeting 10.0 for your wideband setup.
Adding meth will not lean out your mixture. As soon as the meth injection hits you'll notice your AFR's going rich. In fact, even fully tuned it will still go rich until the computer compensates and leans it back out. If you want, I could post my dyno graph with the wideband reading at the bottom and you can see exactly what I am talking about.
You may also want to do some more research if you are targeting 10.0 for your wideband setup.
Adding meth will not lean out your mixture. As soon as the meth injection hits you'll notice your AFR's going rich. In fact, even fully tuned it will still go rich until the computer compensates and leans it back out. If you want, I could post my dyno graph with the wideband reading at the bottom and you can see exactly what I am talking about.
07-15-2013, 10:02 PM
#27
Having it done correctly means that #1, your car is tuned on it and you have the right amount of spray going in for what your setup calls for. #2, you need to have everything that the meth touches be able to handle the meth, because it is corrosive. This is not as important with the water meth mix as it diludes the meth, but you want to have everything able to take the meth to be safe.
When it comes to your specific question, IMO it is debate able which is better. Adding either 100% meth or the meth water mix will both fatten things up. I believe that a meth water mix helps cool IAT's better. It also makes things less corrosive, and it does make the meth last twice as long when you are mixing it with water, so that's why I choose to run the 50:50 mix. Running 100% meth should give you more octane increase. I would probably run 100% meth if I was running a much higher boost level (20+#'s).
Either one will work. It really depends on which side of the water meth mix vs straight meth argument you are on. As long as you keep using whatever one you decide on after its tuned on it, you'll be fine.
07-16-2013, 12:39 AM
#29
No. There is a specific amount you want for a specific given setup. If this was not true, then why would every single meth injection company have different combos of different sizes nozzles? Anything over the formulated amount you should run is not going to do anything positive for you.
You may also want to do some more research if you are targeting 10.0 for your wideband setup.
Adding meth will not lean out your mixture. As soon as the meth injection hits you'll notice your AFR's going rich. In fact, even fully tuned it will still go rich until the computer compensates and leans it back out. If you want, I could post my dyno graph with the wideband reading at the bottom and you can see exactly what I am talking about.
You may also want to do some more research if you are targeting 10.0 for your wideband setup.
Adding meth will not lean out your mixture. As soon as the meth injection hits you'll notice your AFR's going rich. In fact, even fully tuned it will still go rich until the computer compensates and leans it back out. If you want, I could post my dyno graph with the wideband reading at the bottom and you can see exactly what I am talking about.
I have MS3X. I have target AFs set, SOOOOOOOOO When I spray methanol at it, the injector duty cycle WILL drop, and methanol will be making up the difference.
So it is in fact you that may be needing to do some research.
07-16-2013, 06:26 AM
#30
I plan on running M1 through two 14gph nozzles. Since I built the "kit" I wrote the instructions too.
Companies make "kits" for people that just bolt stuff together and hope it all works without tuning everything for it. More methanol means more knock protection, water will help lower EGTs.
07-16-2013, 06:31 AM
#31
All LS1tech myths. Those are myth #145, #192, and #111. I'll let you know what happens on friday when I debunk them all.
I have MS3X. I have target AFs set, SOOOOOOOOO When I spray methanol at it, the injector duty cycle WILL drop, and methanol will be making up the difference.
So it is in fact you that may be needing to do some research.
I have MS3X. I have target AFs set, SOOOOOOOOO When I spray methanol at it, the injector duty cycle WILL drop, and methanol will be making up the difference.
So it is in fact you that may be needing to do some research.
10.0 is not gonna hurt you, but it is far from ideal. Good luck in proving the vast experience of the forum wrong.
07-16-2013, 09:08 AM
#33
Julio at Alky control is very opinionated about running meth vs a water meth mix. This is what ultimately led me to going with Snow Performance, as I don't agree that running 100% meth is the most ideal setup for every car every time. My car proved that on the dyno when I gained more power from running the water meth mix over running straight meth. I won't argue that running pure meth may have its advantages, but there are advantages of running a 50:50 water meth mix as well.
07-16-2013, 09:10 AM
#34
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This is more or less my argument for all of this. If they told you that your setup needs dual nozzles, then that's what you should go with.
Julio at Alky control is very opinionated about running meth vs a water meth mix. This is what ultimately led me to going with Snow Performance, as I don't agree that running 100% meth is the most ideal setup for every car every time. My car proved that on the dyno when I gained more power from running the water meth mix over running straight meth. I won't argue that running pure meth may have its advantages, but there are advantages of running a 50:50 water meth mix as well.
Julio at Alky control is very opinionated about running meth vs a water meth mix. This is what ultimately led me to going with Snow Performance, as I don't agree that running 100% meth is the most ideal setup for every car every time. My car proved that on the dyno when I gained more power from running the water meth mix over running straight meth. I won't argue that running pure meth may have its advantages, but there are advantages of running a 50:50 water meth mix as well.
07-16-2013, 09:21 AM
#35
The fact that I use half as much meth and the mixture is much less corrosive making connections and the pump last longer are all added bonuses to running the 50:50 water meth mix.
Now, keep in mind this was my car, my boost level, my setup. I'm not saying 50:50 mix is the best for every car. If it were me though, I would run the 50:50 mix for anything under 20#'s of boost, and I would go with 100% meth for something running higher boost than that for the added octane benefit.
07-16-2013, 09:41 AM
#36
Well, I am sure in your vast 211 posts that you probably know it all. Nevermind countless tuners that tune for targets in countless FI cars at 11.0-11.5 as their target.
10.0 is not gonna hurt you, but it is far from ideal. Good luck in proving the vast experience of the forum wrong.
10.0 is not gonna hurt you, but it is far from ideal. Good luck in proving the vast experience of the forum wrong.
I don't have that many posts because I'm too busy on other forums, or actually turning a wrench on my own car, or tuning, etc.
This.
I plan on running M1 through two 14gph nozzles. Since I built the "kit" I wrote the instructions too. Companies make "kits" for people that just bolt stuff together and hope it all works without tuning everything for it.
More methanol means more knock protection, water will help lower EGTs.
I plan on running M1 through two 14gph nozzles. Since I built the "kit" I wrote the instructions too.
Companies make "kits" for people that just bolt stuff together and hope it all works without tuning everything for it. More methanol means more knock protection, water will help lower EGTs.
07-16-2013, 09:46 AM
#37
I would have gone with whatever would gain me the most power safely between straight meth or water meth mix. We started with straight meth and he added timing until he felt he could safely. After the meth was drained, I poured in the water meth mix and my IAT's were cooler allowing him to add more timing safely. The difference was about 25 to the wheels after the timing increase.
You can get those IATs down all you want, but at a certain point (boost, type of fuel used in the injectors) it doesn't matter. Hence the reason I'm choosing to use the most detonation resistant fuel, pure, in my meth injection system. Go ask your tuner about that since you don't have any actual experience.