p1 vs D1 vs turbo
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 92
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From: Seguin Texas
p1 vs D1 vs turbo Ok I've read multiple forums and researched all over websites and still haven't gotten an answer that satisfies me. I'm absolutely going FI and want to know the hp differences.
I know the p1 has a 5 or 7 psi pulley and works great at low rpm and is said to fall off towards high rpm, D1 from around mid range through high rpms. Single turbo will have lag then boost like crazy, TT almost completely voids lag and is a monster.
The problem I have with TT is boosting to launch and bouncing while running no line lock.
My real question is, I have a decent built ls1 top end. 228R cam, Manley valves and push rods , Dantadoff dual valve springs, Jackson timing etc.. With that in mind I'm switching to ls6 intake 60LB injectors walbro fuel pump etc.. what is the most hp fi setup while still engine friendly til I build another specifically for insane boost?
I know the p1 has a 5 or 7 psi pulley and works great at low rpm and is said to fall off towards high rpm, D1 from around mid range through high rpms. Single turbo will have lag then boost like crazy, TT almost completely voids lag and is a monster.
The problem I have with TT is boosting to launch and bouncing while running no line lock.
My real question is, I have a decent built ls1 top end. 228R cam, Manley valves and push rods , Dantadoff dual valve springs, Jackson timing etc.. With that in mind I'm switching to ls6 intake 60LB injectors walbro fuel pump etc.. what is the most hp fi setup while still engine friendly til I build another specifically for insane boost?
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From: Joliet,IL and Las Vegas 50/50
Ok I've read multiple forums and researched all over websites and still haven't gotten an answer that satisfies me. I'm absolutely going FI and want to know the hp differences.
I know the p1 has a 5 or 7 psi pulley and works great at low rpm and is said to fall off towards high rpm, D1 from around mid range through high rpms. Single turbo will have lag then boost like crazy, TT almost completely voids lag and is a monster.
The problem I have with TT is boosting to launch and bouncing while running no line lock.
My real question is, I have a decent built ls1 top end. 228R cam, Manley valves and push rods , Dantadoff dual valve springs, Jackson timing etc.. With that in mind I'm switching to ls6 intake 60LB injectors walbro fuel pump etc.. what is the most hp fi setup while still engine friendly til I build another specifically for insane boost?
I know the p1 has a 5 or 7 psi pulley and works great at low rpm and is said to fall off towards high rpm, D1 from around mid range through high rpms. Single turbo will have lag then boost like crazy, TT almost completely voids lag and is a monster.
The problem I have with TT is boosting to launch and bouncing while running no line lock.
My real question is, I have a decent built ls1 top end. 228R cam, Manley valves and push rods , Dantadoff dual valve springs, Jackson timing etc.. With that in mind I'm switching to ls6 intake 60LB injectors walbro fuel pump etc.. what is the most hp fi setup while still engine friendly til I build another specifically for insane boost?
Also, you can control boost pretty easily with a turbo so if you put a 6psi spring in and want to run that until you reassess your motor then that can be done pretty easily without sacrificing your setup. Although I suppose the same could be said for a SC pulley. I am biased toward turbo's though.
the p1sc and d1sc are good units but i dont think they are made for long term high milage use i have seen some last a long time and some need freshened at 5-6000 miles if used harder. the old d1 oil fed units are strong and hold up well and will make good power but they are older and run a lower gearcase . and are louder than hell. a good turbo will last a long time and be quieter down the road. jmho.
the p1sc and d1sc are good units but i dont think they are made for long term high milage use i have seen some last a long time and some need freshened at 5-6000 miles if used harder. the old d1 oil fed units are strong and hold up well and will make good power but they are older and run a lower gearcase . and are louder than hell. a good turbo will last a long time and be quieter down the road. jmho.
Original poster, I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for. You have a stock motor, so keep in mind that throwing boost at a stock motor will shorten it's longevity, how long depends on what you do to protect the motor, specifically tune and keep the pistons cool. If you plan to go procharger, I'd recommend the D1SC over the P1, and it'll make north of 800rwhp with a properly built motor. The pluses to a procharger are it's pretty trouble free, bolt on easy, can be done in a weekend or two, and is very reliable. Downside, is it can be loud at times, and changing boost is not as easy as a turbo.
The turbo route is slightly cheaper, but requires a little more work and planning than a PC. Browse the thread titles in this section and go back 5-6 pages and you'll see there are quite a few more turbo 'help' threads than procharger ones. From oiling issues to exhaust problems, boost creep etc. Not to say you can't get it to work well, it just takes more planning and you need to be comfortable with troubleshooting and figuring out issues. Tuning is also a little trickier with a turbo than a supercharger.
In the end, decide what matters to you. Power delivery is a little different, but both setups can be equally fast and powerful.
Feel free to read up, and post questions if you have them.
I have a PT7675 going on my low compression 383 and the shop that is doing the work said they can't believe how fast the turbo comes in on the car. I haven't driven it yet but the shop owner loves the way the car feels and says I am going to love it so I don't think lag is going to be an issue.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
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It's all relevant to how you want the power delivery. Biggest thing, set a goal. Centrifugal is going to build boost linearly with the motor and be more predictable. Turbo, it's going to hit and go.
Alchemist hit it all spot on really. Biggest thing again, set a goal. Do you plan to have the car all done in a weekend or don't mind having it down for months (and in some cases years) to get the turbo stuff done. There are places that make turbo kits but you still need other thinks then a turbo and some piping.
If you haven't already learned, I would suggest picking up HPT or EFIlive and start learning a bit and do some reading, then more reading and when you have a break, more reading. The biggest thing (again going back to what Alchemist already stated) is the tune being safe for the car and driver.
Alchemist hit it all spot on really. Biggest thing again, set a goal. Do you plan to have the car all done in a weekend or don't mind having it down for months (and in some cases years) to get the turbo stuff done. There are places that make turbo kits but you still need other thinks then a turbo and some piping.
If you haven't already learned, I would suggest picking up HPT or EFIlive and start learning a bit and do some reading, then more reading and when you have a break, more reading. The biggest thing (again going back to what Alchemist already stated) is the tune being safe for the car and driver.
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Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 92
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From: Seguin Texas
I am comfortable with a 700 hp motor + 200 shot, so I'm sure I'll be Ok as long as I get a great tune. With that being said, I've never ran a FI car but I know several guys that do and I would prefer FI before running spray again. My opinion is the FI is more predictable and won't sling the car or parts to the side. Like I said I am going to build one of the best engines for boost money can buy. For now because I work alot I don't race alot so even if hp reaches 700-900 hp it won't put it all down on public roads. I don't believe going more than 8psi max will destroy the engine. I've seen multiple threads and forums where people speak of doing this with less than what I have done to my engine. Trust me I'm not stock but only pushing 430rwhp.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Seguin Texas
I will kindly disagree with everything you've said other than the quieter statement. Changed the oil in the blower every 7-10k miles, don't overspin them and they will last with no issues at all.
Original poster, I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for. You have a stock motor, so keep in mind that throwing boost at a stock motor will shorten it's longevity, how long depends on what you do to protect the motor, specifically tune and keep the pistons cool. If you plan to go procharger, I'd recommend the D1SC over the P1, and it'll make north of 800rwhp with a properly built motor. The pluses to a procharger are it's pretty trouble free, bolt on easy, can be done in a weekend or two, and is very reliable. Downside, is it can be loud at times, and changing boost is not as easy as a turbo.
The turbo route is slightly cheaper, but requires a little more work and planning than a PC. Browse the thread titles in this section and go back 5-6 pages and you'll see there are quite a few more turbo 'help' threads than procharger ones. From oiling issues to exhaust problems, boost creep etc. Not to say you can't get it to work well, it just takes more planning and you need to be comfortable with troubleshooting and figuring out issues. Tuning is also a little trickier with a turbo than a supercharger.
In the end, decide what matters to you. Power delivery is a little different, but both setups can be equally fast and powerful.
Feel free to read up, and post questions if you have them.
Original poster, I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for. You have a stock motor, so keep in mind that throwing boost at a stock motor will shorten it's longevity, how long depends on what you do to protect the motor, specifically tune and keep the pistons cool. If you plan to go procharger, I'd recommend the D1SC over the P1, and it'll make north of 800rwhp with a properly built motor. The pluses to a procharger are it's pretty trouble free, bolt on easy, can be done in a weekend or two, and is very reliable. Downside, is it can be loud at times, and changing boost is not as easy as a turbo.
The turbo route is slightly cheaper, but requires a little more work and planning than a PC. Browse the thread titles in this section and go back 5-6 pages and you'll see there are quite a few more turbo 'help' threads than procharger ones. From oiling issues to exhaust problems, boost creep etc. Not to say you can't get it to work well, it just takes more planning and you need to be comfortable with troubleshooting and figuring out issues. Tuning is also a little trickier with a turbo than a supercharger.
In the end, decide what matters to you. Power delivery is a little different, but both setups can be equally fast and powerful.
Feel free to read up, and post questions if you have them.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Seguin Texas
Yes I believe if I remember correct the D1SC new kit was around $6500. And I've seen legit turbo kits for the same price or a bit more of course I was looking at twins
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Seguin Texas
Whichever is truly best and will last is what I want. In best I mean I don't know how these motors react to boost from either side. I just figure what I'm looking for by using the simple formula N/A ÷ 14.7 × psi + N/A. If I used this, I would get 430 ÷ 14.7 = 29.25 × 7psi = 204.76 + 430 = 634.76 hp
It sounds like you have 8k to spend. That should get you a nice setup either direction you go. There are tons of people asking questions regarding what way to go, SC or turbo. How do we answer that?? Either setup can be very reliable and both can be extremely strong. However, I will say most people on here will say turbo, including myself.
BTW, those BS eBay turbos you were referring to are putting down some good numbers and are proving to be pretty good turbos. Look up Denmah's builds, can't argue with the proof.
BTW, those BS eBay turbos you were referring to are putting down some good numbers and are proving to be pretty good turbos. Look up Denmah's builds, can't argue with the proof.
the p1sc and d1sc are good units but i dont think they are made for long term high milage use i have seen some last a long time and some need freshened at 5-6000 miles if used harder. the old d1 oil fed units are strong and hold up well and will make good power but they are older and run a lower gearcase . and are louder than hell. a good turbo will last a long time and be quieter down the road. jmho.
Procharger failures area only due to improper install or a standard rotation off a mustang clocked wrong. Pulley it down and wastegate it!!
Turbos lots of heat. Horrible heat on engine oil. Bearing and impeller failures just scroll this section.
Procharger more money maybe a little less power down low but reliable.
Turbo cheap now oil changes will cost you. A little more power. Unreliability. And most of the time no ac. More heat soak underhood!
Seriously the old d1 was junk. New ones rules my last had a lot of miles had it checked out should at least 150 k miles. Loud not too bad helical gears are quiet! But who wants that? I want ac!
Procharger failures area only due to improper install or a standard rotation off a mustang clocked wrong. Pulley it down and wastegate it!!
Turbos lots of heat. Horrible heat on engine oil. Bearing and impeller failures just scroll this section.
Procharger more money maybe a little less power down low but reliable.
Turbo cheap now oil changes will cost you. A little more power. Unreliability. And most of the time no ac. More heat soak underhood!
Procharger failures area only due to improper install or a standard rotation off a mustang clocked wrong. Pulley it down and wastegate it!!
Turbos lots of heat. Horrible heat on engine oil. Bearing and impeller failures just scroll this section.
Procharger more money maybe a little less power down low but reliable.
Turbo cheap now oil changes will cost you. A little more power. Unreliability. And most of the time no ac. More heat soak underhood!
Some kits like Huron speed kit still allow you to retain your A/C. If you wrap the exhaust pipes, heat isn't an issue. Oil can still be changed in the normal intervals as well, use synthetic oils to help if you really want better oil.
IMO single turbo is the way to go.
I think a d1sc will get you to your goal and a turbo will get you there as well if you do some of the work yourself the turbo is cheaper . at first the prochargers sound cool but after a while I think they are loud the gears and the bov. JMHO but they will be the fastest way to bolt on and go easy boost. I know you can buy everything you need to go turbo under $2000.00 but it will require a lot more fabrication and welding and some room and heat issues with piping under the hood.
ok I know there are guys getting some good life out of prochargers I have had a chance to mess with a few and there were good and bad but this is my experience . a good friend of mine bought a f1r new changed the oil every year and ran about 1000 a year and 4-5 years it was getting chrome flakes in the oil from bearings.
my brothers d1sc is doing a good job and getting worked hard for a few years now running high nines at 15-16 lbs .
the strongest one ive seen was a d1 old style blower we ran it 6.000 rpm over the max on a 454 bbc it made 12-13 lbs and live for years getting beat to death.
ok I know there are guys getting some good life out of prochargers I have had a chance to mess with a few and there were good and bad but this is my experience . a good friend of mine bought a f1r new changed the oil every year and ran about 1000 a year and 4-5 years it was getting chrome flakes in the oil from bearings.
my brothers d1sc is doing a good job and getting worked hard for a few years now running high nines at 15-16 lbs .
the strongest one ive seen was a d1 old style blower we ran it 6.000 rpm over the max on a 454 bbc it made 12-13 lbs and live for years getting beat to death.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Seguin Texas
It sounds like you have 8k to spend. That should get you a nice setup either direction you go. There are tons of people asking questions regarding what way to go, SC or turbo. How do we answer that?? Either setup can be very reliable and both can be extremely strong. However, I will say most people on here will say turbo, including myself.
BTW, those BS eBay turbos you were referring to are putting down some good numbers and are proving to be pretty good turbos. Look up Denmah's builds, can't argue with the proof.
BTW, those BS eBay turbos you were referring to are putting down some good numbers and are proving to be pretty good turbos. Look up Denmah's builds, can't argue with the proof.
the p1sc and d1sc are good units but i dont think they are made for long term high milage use i have seen some last a long time and some need freshened at 5-6000 miles if used harder. the old d1 oil fed units are strong and hold up well and will make good power but they are older and run a lower gearcase . and are louder than hell. a good turbo will last a long time and be quieter down the road. jmho.