LSx Budget Dyno Queen. Ls1 Rx7+turbo(s)
04-23-2015, 10:24 AM
#121
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Thread Starter
Mine bent some rods at the end of last year. Night before the last track rental actually. No doubt it was over 850 wheel, it was 50deg out and was making over 20lbs all night. I'm painting the engine bay, doing front suspension, and throwing a built bottom end in it now though. Sucks it didn't last but I put it through hell.
Congrats on the new addition! I'll keep the tires from dry rotting while your care to the fam!
Congrats on the new addition! I'll keep the tires from dry rotting while your care to the fam!
Come on up-if you show up while I'm at the office the wife would probably give you the car and the title lol
04-27-2015, 07:12 PM
#122
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Thread Starter
Goal achieved. My pile is now the highest WHP stock LS1 powered car, ever (according to Ls1 Tech) 872whp
23psi spike, settled at 21. Running lean up top because, well I have 2 fuel pumps I pulled out of a random parts box lol.
At the crank, that's likely near or over 1000hp. In 'Merica, they say that FOUR DIGITS. FOUR ***'N DIGITS!
Video to come, hope it comes out because it sounded unreal. So unreal I lifted early because I was convinced it was going to pop lol. I will likely toss one or two 340's in the tank before I make a pass at full Geechie. It made 814@17 psi with steady AFR, so that will do for now!
23psi spike, settled at 21. Running lean up top because, well I have 2 fuel pumps I pulled out of a random parts box lol.
At the crank, that's likely near or over 1000hp. In 'Merica, they say that FOUR DIGITS. FOUR ***'N DIGITS!
Video to come, hope it comes out because it sounded unreal. So unreal I lifted early because I was convinced it was going to pop lol. I will likely toss one or two 340's in the tank before I make a pass at full Geechie. It made 814@17 psi with steady AFR, so that will do for now!
Last edited by coltboostin; 01-03-2016 at 05:04 PM.
04-27-2015, 07:41 PM
#124
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
Stock everything-untouched since it left GM. Stock Pan, head bolts, Rod bolts....the only thing I have changed on this motor is the Alternator Lol
04-28-2015, 11:59 AM
#125
I have to get in a little dyno trash talk here because the numbers don’t make sense. Unless I’m doing my math wrong (which is always a possibility!) Your results seem to defy the laws of physics…
The way I understand it the absolute best a turbo setup could ever do is double the NA HP (at the crank) per BAR of boost. That also assumes a 100% efficient turbo system, which isn’t possible.
Wouldn’t that mean in a perfect zero loss environment, a stock LS1 would have to be making 375 CHP to hit 872 CHP at 19.49 psi.
375/14.7= gives you a max possible gain of 25.5hp per lb of boost.
872/25.5= 34.19 -14.7 (for 1 atmosphere)= 19.49 psi.
Add the fact that we are talking about RWHP, plus the efficiency losses of the turbo system… the numbers are then completely impossible, no?
I’m not trying to discredit anyone’s accomplishment’s. Just a reminder that dyno numbers are meant for tuning… the numbers they put out are a guess at best. Comparing numbers in any sort of competition that involves multiple dynos/locations/days is pointless.
Assuming 300whp it’s probably making closer to 18whp or so per PSI. More like 650whp at 19lbs. Which is still damn impressive, but the dyno queens will argue this point all day because they love to brag about big numbers.
Weight and trap is a much better indication, esp with a manual trans car. Get that sucker to a drag strip and make some 1/8th mile hits! Should be in the 120-125+ range at 872whp.
The way I understand it the absolute best a turbo setup could ever do is double the NA HP (at the crank) per BAR of boost. That also assumes a 100% efficient turbo system, which isn’t possible.
Wouldn’t that mean in a perfect zero loss environment, a stock LS1 would have to be making 375 CHP to hit 872 CHP at 19.49 psi.
375/14.7= gives you a max possible gain of 25.5hp per lb of boost.
872/25.5= 34.19 -14.7 (for 1 atmosphere)= 19.49 psi.
Add the fact that we are talking about RWHP, plus the efficiency losses of the turbo system… the numbers are then completely impossible, no?
I’m not trying to discredit anyone’s accomplishment’s. Just a reminder that dyno numbers are meant for tuning… the numbers they put out are a guess at best. Comparing numbers in any sort of competition that involves multiple dynos/locations/days is pointless.
Assuming 300whp it’s probably making closer to 18whp or so per PSI. More like 650whp at 19lbs. Which is still damn impressive, but the dyno queens will argue this point all day because they love to brag about big numbers.
Weight and trap is a much better indication, esp with a manual trans car. Get that sucker to a drag strip and make some 1/8th mile hits! Should be in the 120-125+ range at 872whp.
04-28-2015, 01:07 PM
#126
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Thread Starter
I have to get in a little dyno trash talk here because the numbers don’t make sense. Unless I’m doing my math wrong (which is always a possibility!) Your results seem to defy the laws of physics…
The way I understand it the absolute best a turbo setup could ever do is double the NA HP (at the crank) per BAR of boost. That also assumes a 100% efficient turbo system, which isn’t possible.
Wouldn’t that mean in a perfect zero loss environment, a stock LS1 would have to be making 375 CHP to hit 872 CHP at 19.49 psi.
375/14.7= gives you a max possible gain of 25.5hp per lb of boost.
872/25.5= 34.19 -14.7 (for 1 atmosphere)= 19.49 psi.
Add the fact that we are talking about RWHP, plus the efficiency losses of the turbo system… the numbers are then completely impossible, no?
I’m not trying to discredit anyone’s accomplishment’s. Just a reminder that dyno numbers are meant for tuning… the numbers they put out are a guess at best. Comparing numbers in any sort of competition that involves multiple dynos/locations/days is pointless.
Assuming 300whp it’s probably making closer to 18whp or so per PSI. More like 650whp at 19lbs. Which is still damn impressive, but the dyno queens will argue this point all day because they love to brag about big numbers.
Weight and trap is a much better indication, esp with a manual trans car. Get that sucker to a drag strip and make some 1/8th mile hits! Should be in the 120-125+ range at 872whp.
The way I understand it the absolute best a turbo setup could ever do is double the NA HP (at the crank) per BAR of boost. That also assumes a 100% efficient turbo system, which isn’t possible.
Wouldn’t that mean in a perfect zero loss environment, a stock LS1 would have to be making 375 CHP to hit 872 CHP at 19.49 psi.
375/14.7= gives you a max possible gain of 25.5hp per lb of boost.
872/25.5= 34.19 -14.7 (for 1 atmosphere)= 19.49 psi.
Add the fact that we are talking about RWHP, plus the efficiency losses of the turbo system… the numbers are then completely impossible, no?
I’m not trying to discredit anyone’s accomplishment’s. Just a reminder that dyno numbers are meant for tuning… the numbers they put out are a guess at best. Comparing numbers in any sort of competition that involves multiple dynos/locations/days is pointless.
Assuming 300whp it’s probably making closer to 18whp or so per PSI. More like 650whp at 19lbs. Which is still damn impressive, but the dyno queens will argue this point all day because they love to brag about big numbers.
Weight and trap is a much better indication, esp with a manual trans car. Get that sucker to a drag strip and make some 1/8th mile hits! Should be in the 120-125+ range at 872whp.
A dyno jet is the least "manipulateable" Dyno. You spin it X Distance in Y time, and you have made Z power. Correction factors for Temp/Humidity. Yes, some dynos like Land And Sea's and Superflows tend to read higher, but saying the car is probably making 650 is laughable.
In terms of personal experience with my cars- The AWD Colt made 619whp on this dyno. Car weighted 2720 with Dirver and Gas at the track.
04-28-2015, 02:09 PM
#127
Your theory there is defiantly flawed. The more compressor you have, the more HP per PSI you will make. It will just be continually moved more to the right on the power curve, and very biased on where you are at on the compressor map. If you look at the list here https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...end-lsx-s.html I am right in line with what other are making with similar amounts of compressor flow, and boost, 90% of which have verified trap speeds. Proof is in that puddin'
A dyno jet is the least "manipulateable" Dyno. You spin it X Distance in Y time, and you have made Z power. Correction factors for Temp/Humidity. Yes, some dynos like Land And Sea's and Superflows tend to read higher, but saying the car is probably making 650 is laughable.
A dyno jet is the least "manipulateable" Dyno. You spin it X Distance in Y time, and you have made Z power. Correction factors for Temp/Humidity. Yes, some dynos like Land And Sea's and Superflows tend to read higher, but saying the car is probably making 650 is laughable.
Are the dyno numbers “Corrected”?
The more compressor you have the more HP per PSI you will make up to a point. That is because it becomes more efficient. A turbo system that is more than 100% efficient isn’t possible! 100% would be doubling the NA power. It is physically impossible to more than double your NA HP at 1bar of boost (at sea level). It can’t be done… MASS IN = MASS OUT, period. You can’t change the MASS per Cubic Foot of air… end of story! I don’t care if you run a pair of 88mm turbos… at 1 bar they won’t more than double the NA power.
What proof? No one else is claiming to make 872+whp on a bone stock ls1 at 19lbs. As you said, you’re the first and have no track times to back it up.
Again not trying to get in a pissing match. But it’s just not possible, math doesn’t lie… “Puddin” does…
04-28-2015, 04:36 PM
#128
I have to get in a little dyno trash talk here because the numbers don’t make sense. Unless I’m doing my math wrong (which is always a possibility!) Your results seem to defy the laws of physics…
The way I understand it the absolute best a turbo setup could ever do is double the NA HP (at the crank) per BAR of boost. That also assumes a 100% efficient turbo system, which isn’t possible.
Wouldn’t that mean in a perfect zero loss environment, a stock LS1 would have to be making 375 CHP to hit 872 CHP at 19.49 psi.
375/14.7= gives you a max possible gain of 25.5hp per lb of boost.
872/25.5= 34.19 -14.7 (for 1 atmosphere)= 19.49 psi.
Add the fact that we are talking about RWHP, plus the efficiency losses of the turbo system… the numbers are then completely impossible, no?
I’m not trying to discredit anyone’s accomplishment’s. Just a reminder that dyno numbers are meant for tuning… the numbers they put out are a guess at best. Comparing numbers in any sort of competition that involves multiple dynos/locations/days is pointless.
Assuming 300whp it’s probably making closer to 18whp or so per PSI. More like 650whp at 19lbs. Which is still damn impressive, but the dyno queens will argue this point all day because they love to brag about big numbers.
Weight and trap is a much better indication, esp with a manual trans car. Get that sucker to a drag strip and make some 1/8th mile hits! Should be in the 120-125+ range at 872whp.
The way I understand it the absolute best a turbo setup could ever do is double the NA HP (at the crank) per BAR of boost. That also assumes a 100% efficient turbo system, which isn’t possible.
Wouldn’t that mean in a perfect zero loss environment, a stock LS1 would have to be making 375 CHP to hit 872 CHP at 19.49 psi.
375/14.7= gives you a max possible gain of 25.5hp per lb of boost.
872/25.5= 34.19 -14.7 (for 1 atmosphere)= 19.49 psi.
Add the fact that we are talking about RWHP, plus the efficiency losses of the turbo system… the numbers are then completely impossible, no?
I’m not trying to discredit anyone’s accomplishment’s. Just a reminder that dyno numbers are meant for tuning… the numbers they put out are a guess at best. Comparing numbers in any sort of competition that involves multiple dynos/locations/days is pointless.
Assuming 300whp it’s probably making closer to 18whp or so per PSI. More like 650whp at 19lbs. Which is still damn impressive, but the dyno queens will argue this point all day because they love to brag about big numbers.
Weight and trap is a much better indication, esp with a manual trans car. Get that sucker to a drag strip and make some 1/8th mile hits! Should be in the 120-125+ range at 872whp.
I agree though that we need to see the MPH at the track to get "real" numbers but I really doubt that with a stick and it being a street car it will go 125 to the 1/8th.
04-28-2015, 06:20 PM
#129
Just wondering. Going by that math my WS6 with just a lid and MAC shorty headers made a little over 360 on a Dynojet so thats a basically stock ls1 that made 360 so How much do you think that would have made at 20 pounds?
I agree though that we need to see the MPH at the track to get "real" numbers but I really doubt that with a stick and it being a street car it will go 125 to the 1/8th.
I agree though that we need to see the MPH at the track to get "real" numbers but I really doubt that with a stick and it being a street car it will go 125 to the 1/8th.
The use of standard SAE air density corrections are just plain wrong on turbo applications. Which plays a big part with inflated numbers.
IMO no way a 100% factory ls1 with cast manifolds is making much over 300whp. Look around a bit at 100% stock manual trans ls1 dyno numbers. Early manual trans. c5's are lucky to break 310. Most around 300... Autos around 280. At least thats what I see if I do a search and average out the results. When you factor in the 12% or so drivetrain loss that puts you right around their advertised 345 factory rated CHP.
04-28-2015, 07:27 PM
#130
360 also seems high. The load bearing dyno's around here give closer to real world power numbers IMO. But again this reiterates my point. 10 different dynos will give you 10 different numbers.
The use of standard SAE air density corrections are just plain wrong on turbo applications. Which plays a big part with inflated numbers.
IMO no way a 100% factory ls1 with cast manifolds is making much over 300whp. Look around a bit at 100% stock manual trans ls1 dyno numbers. Early manual trans. c5's are lucky to break 310. Most around 300... Autos around 280. At least thats what I see if I do a search and average out the results. When you factor in the 12% or so drivetrain loss that puts you right around their advertised 345 factory rated CHP.
The use of standard SAE air density corrections are just plain wrong on turbo applications. Which plays a big part with inflated numbers.
IMO no way a 100% factory ls1 with cast manifolds is making much over 300whp. Look around a bit at 100% stock manual trans ls1 dyno numbers. Early manual trans. c5's are lucky to break 310. Most around 300... Autos around 280. At least thats what I see if I do a search and average out the results. When you factor in the 12% or so drivetrain loss that puts you right around their advertised 345 factory rated CHP.
I agree with what your saying and I think his numbers might be a little high but I have also seen allot of cars that have "defied?" the odds. Back in the late 80s My Grand national out MPHd my friends GN by a bunch and he had all kinds of mods and my car was just a bolt on car. Neither one of us could figure out why.
04-28-2015, 08:30 PM
#131
I don't care one way or the other
But math is math
Only way you could truley double the HP of a given engine at 2 atmosphere with a turbo is if you had an insanely low drive pressure.
It would have to be under 1:1 so VE would be better than NA
This increase in VE would have to be enough to offset the compressor inefficiency..... Tough task
But math is math
Only way you could truley double the HP of a given engine at 2 atmosphere with a turbo is if you had an insanely low drive pressure.
It would have to be under 1:1 so VE would be better than NA
This increase in VE would have to be enough to offset the compressor inefficiency..... Tough task
04-28-2015, 09:41 PM
#132
I don't care one way or the other
But math is math
Only way you could truley double the HP of a given engine at 2 atmosphere with a turbo is if you had an insanely low drive pressure.
It would have to be under 1:1 so VE would be better than NA
This increase in VE would have to be enough to offset the compressor inefficiency..... Tough task
But math is math
Only way you could truley double the HP of a given engine at 2 atmosphere with a turbo is if you had an insanely low drive pressure.
It would have to be under 1:1 so VE would be better than NA
This increase in VE would have to be enough to offset the compressor inefficiency..... Tough task
04-29-2015, 08:46 AM
#134
lol my fully built/forged cammed and cnc headed ls3 made 871 on 16lbs from a billet s480 also onna dynojet and also lifting early around 5900-6k rpm (because boost spiked n didnt xpect it) but were under the same circumstances but mines reality...... NO ******* way this stock ls1 made this power....oh i also forgot to add, my ls3 is stroked to 416inches...
im all about people makin crazy #'s on stock motors but if this is possible, i must be doin somethin wrong by sellin my ls1 and building this motor.
This sounds just like a guy i know that makes a lil over 1k whp supposedly and traps 150-152mph inna light notchback.... i mean cmon man what fckin dyno are u runnin on
im all about people makin crazy #'s on stock motors but if this is possible, i must be doin somethin wrong by sellin my ls1 and building this motor.
This sounds just like a guy i know that makes a lil over 1k whp supposedly and traps 150-152mph inna light notchback.... i mean cmon man what fckin dyno are u runnin on
Last edited by Kmspeedie; 04-29-2015 at 08:58 AM.
04-29-2015, 09:08 AM
#135
hahahaha last dyno I used they put 1.2 CF on all graphs. I told them to use no CF and a fully forged, ported heads, cam, 35r STI on 20psi made 360whp hahahahahah. I thought the dude was going to hang himself. Also maxed out 750cc injectors at 330hp. That dyno was a true heart breaker.
04-29-2015, 01:46 PM
#136
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
hahahaha last dyno I used they put 1.2 CF on all graphs. I told them to use no CF and a fully forged, ported heads, cam, 35r STI on 20psi made 360whp hahahahahah. I thought the dude was going to hang himself. Also maxed out 750cc injectors at 330hp. That dyno was a true heart breaker.
lol my fully built/forged cammed and cnc headed ls3 made 871 on 16lbs from a billet s480 also onna dynojet and also lifting early around 5900-6k rpm (because boost spiked n didnt xpect it) but were under the same circumstances but mines reality...... NO ******* way this stock ls1 made this power....oh i also forgot to add, my ls3 is stroked to 416inches...
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have dyno'd 619whp in a 2700lbs car that ran mid 9.5@150 all day. Same dyno, same software. Why is no one questioning that? LOL
Also-lets take an example from the SBE list.
6)Stock48 900 whp LQ4 (ported 317s- Billet BW 76@20psi)
Thats through an Auto-figure the car would make 950-970 with a 6 speed.
If my dyno is BS, his is surley BS, right? Yes, he ran
2) Stock48-8.22@164mph-LQ4@23psi 3300lbs (Best ET)
Please guys, debunk this "Mystery"
04-29-2015, 02:58 PM
#137
I wouldn’t load that sucker up in 5th. Run it in the 1/8th and let off. Should be in the 127-128 range 872whp assuming 3000lb race weight and a 12% drivetrain loss. I seriously doubt you’ll get anywhere near that, but I hope you do!
Your facts are a bit off with Stock48’s stuff. You can’t compare an unopened ls1 to any of his gen4 6.0 builds. He never dyno’d the nova (8.22 car) and that’s a totally different engine/build. The dyno numbers are from his truck. While he may be using stock parts, they are all new stock parts and he does a complete tear down and rebuild. He also ports his own heads, runs a nice aftermarket cam, valve springs, more cubic inches, better intake, and the pull was made on race gas with a locked converter. His setup NA would make enough power that his results are at least physically possible…unlike yours.
We have the track times to back up the dyno claims..and the numbers make sense.
139mph 4850
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/Phil/bg/
Going by weight and trap that’s roughly 883 at the wheels…It is very believable his setup could have made around 365 whp NA. Which at 20lbs could at least be close to 883whp.
I don’t mention your other car because it’s not a bone stock LS engine and I don’t know a thing about it. Anytime someone more than doubles the NA HP level per atmosphere it should throw up a red BS flag.
Your facts are a bit off with Stock48’s stuff. You can’t compare an unopened ls1 to any of his gen4 6.0 builds. He never dyno’d the nova (8.22 car) and that’s a totally different engine/build. The dyno numbers are from his truck. While he may be using stock parts, they are all new stock parts and he does a complete tear down and rebuild. He also ports his own heads, runs a nice aftermarket cam, valve springs, more cubic inches, better intake, and the pull was made on race gas with a locked converter. His setup NA would make enough power that his results are at least physically possible…unlike yours.
We have the track times to back up the dyno claims..and the numbers make sense.
139mph 4850
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/Phil/bg/
Going by weight and trap that’s roughly 883 at the wheels…It is very believable his setup could have made around 365 whp NA. Which at 20lbs could at least be close to 883whp.
I don’t mention your other car because it’s not a bone stock LS engine and I don’t know a thing about it. Anytime someone more than doubles the NA HP level per atmosphere it should throw up a red BS flag.
04-29-2015, 05:12 PM
#138
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
I wouldn’t load that sucker up in 5th. Run it in the 1/8th and let off. Should be in the 127-128 range 872whp assuming 3000lb race weight and a 12% drivetrain loss. I seriously doubt you’ll get anywhere near that, but I hope you do!
Your facts are a bit off with Stock48’s stuff. You can’t compare an unopened ls1 to any of his gen4 6.0 builds. He never dyno’d the nova (8.22 car) and that’s a totally different engine/build. The dyno numbers are from his truck. While he may be using stock parts, they are all new stock parts and he does a complete tear down and rebuild. He also ports his own heads, runs a nice aftermarket cam, valve springs, more cubic inches, better intake, and the pull was made on race gas with a locked converter.
Your facts are a bit off with Stock48’s stuff. You can’t compare an unopened ls1 to any of his gen4 6.0 builds. He never dyno’d the nova (8.22 car) and that’s a totally different engine/build. The dyno numbers are from his truck. While he may be using stock parts, they are all new stock parts and he does a complete tear down and rebuild. He also ports his own heads, runs a nice aftermarket cam, valve springs, more cubic inches, better intake, and the pull was made on race gas with a locked converter.
Still waiting for you to Myth-bust the Colt's 619 Dyno and 150mph trap.....
04-29-2015, 05:39 PM
#139
How is it a myth? It trapped what it should of
You should trap 160 if numbers are legit at 3000lbs
Spinning blah. The trap still reflects within a couple mph
I can spin and pedal like a **** and trap is still right there
You should trap 160 if numbers are legit at 3000lbs
Spinning blah. The trap still reflects within a couple mph
I can spin and pedal like a **** and trap is still right there
04-29-2015, 06:54 PM
#140
I wouldn’t load that sucker up in 5th. Run it in the 1/8th and let off. Should be in the 127-128 range 872whp assuming 3000lb race weight and a 12% drivetrain loss. I seriously doubt you’ll get anywhere near that, but I hope you do!
Your facts are a bit off with Stock48’s stuff. You can’t compare an unopened ls1 to any of his gen4 6.0 builds. He never dyno’d the nova (8.22 car) and that’s a totally different engine/build. The dyno numbers are from his truck. While he may be using stock parts, they are all new stock parts and he does a complete tear down and rebuild. He also ports his own heads, runs a nice aftermarket cam, valve springs, more cubic inches, better intake, and the pull was made on race gas with a locked converter. His setup NA would make enough power that his results are at least physically possible…unlike yours.
We have the track times to back up the dyno claims..and the numbers make sense.
139mph 4850
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/Phil/bg/
Going by weight and trap that’s roughly 883 at the wheels…It is very believable his setup could have made around 365 whp NA. Which at 20lbs could at least be close to 883whp.
I don’t mention your other car because it’s not a bone stock LS engine and I don’t know a thing about it. Anytime someone more than doubles the NA HP level per atmosphere it should throw up a red BS flag.
Your facts are a bit off with Stock48’s stuff. You can’t compare an unopened ls1 to any of his gen4 6.0 builds. He never dyno’d the nova (8.22 car) and that’s a totally different engine/build. The dyno numbers are from his truck. While he may be using stock parts, they are all new stock parts and he does a complete tear down and rebuild. He also ports his own heads, runs a nice aftermarket cam, valve springs, more cubic inches, better intake, and the pull was made on race gas with a locked converter. His setup NA would make enough power that his results are at least physically possible…unlike yours.
We have the track times to back up the dyno claims..and the numbers make sense.
139mph 4850
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/Phil/bg/
Going by weight and trap that’s roughly 883 at the wheels…It is very believable his setup could have made around 365 whp NA. Which at 20lbs could at least be close to 883whp.
I don’t mention your other car because it’s not a bone stock LS engine and I don’t know a thing about it. Anytime someone more than doubles the NA HP level per atmosphere it should throw up a red BS flag.
Im really interested to see the 1/4 mile MPH. That should give us all a better indication of what kind of power he is really making.
The question I have is what will his car MPH at? 150? More? Less?