Boost controler or Wastegate problem ?!!
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 182
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Boost controler or Wastegate problem ?!! I have hard time with mt TTiX kit i put red and black springs in the Tial wastegates wich should give 14.5 psi as stated in Tial website
the problem that the car build around 23 psi of boost around 4000 rpm which force me to stop the run
the car has AEM tru boost controler connected as in the manual
spring pressure set to 11.5 as stated in the manual
the duty cycle in A setting is 10% but this will make no difference even if i put the controler to off the car make the same 23 psi of boost
Any help will be appresiated
Thanks in advance
the problem that the car build around 23 psi of boost around 4000 rpm which force me to stop the run
the car has AEM tru boost controler connected as in the manual
spring pressure set to 11.5 as stated in the manual
the duty cycle in A setting is 10% but this will make no difference even if i put the controler to off the car make the same 23 psi of boost
Any help will be appresiated
Thanks in advance
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From: Norn Iron
Draw a schematic of exactly how YOU have the w/g and solenoid/controller plumbed up.
With any external electronic controller turned off, this should yield the lowest achievable boost level for your setup, and how you have the control system plumbed up.
But as there are many ways to configure it, we'd need to know exactly what you've done before attempting to diagnose.
But the short answer is it could be either the gate, the plumbing, the solenoid, the controller...really, any part that is within the entire control system
And obviously it would be worth checking the gate is mechanically capable of working when pressure is applied.
With any external electronic controller turned off, this should yield the lowest achievable boost level for your setup, and how you have the control system plumbed up.
But as there are many ways to configure it, we'd need to know exactly what you've done before attempting to diagnose.
But the short answer is it could be either the gate, the plumbing, the solenoid, the controller...really, any part that is within the entire control system
And obviously it would be worth checking the gate is mechanically capable of working when pressure is applied.
9 Second Club
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From: Norn Iron
Take the pipe off the turbo compressor.
Apply known pressure to this pipe with the AEM turned off.
Both gates should open at approximately spring pressure.
If they do not, either the gates are seized, you do not have it plumbed correctly, or the solenoid is not working.
That line should be connected to a port that is closed when no voltage is applied to the solenoid
Apply known pressure to this pipe with the AEM turned off.
Both gates should open at approximately spring pressure.
If they do not, either the gates are seized, you do not have it plumbed correctly, or the solenoid is not working.
That line should be connected to a port that is closed when no voltage is applied to the solenoid
9 Second Club
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From: Norn Iron
The reason I ask to do my way, is because it will test both the gates and your attachment to the solenoid as well as the solenoid itself.
If you can clamp the line from the turbo compressor so it doesnt leak, and tee into the pressure signal elsewhere, this will do the same job.
But if you can pressure and visual test as installed, it is much better given your problems.
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 179
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From: West Palm Beach, FL
Just unhook the ports at the dome with just the reference hooked from bottom port to compressor housing. See what it does. This eliminates the boost controller entirely. If it is still making too much boost, then it's not the controller. And you can continue to narrow it down.
If the noid is normally closed when off, the dome port is blocked and therefore even though no positive pressure is being introduced, it's still trying to compress the air behind the valve which will cause it to make more boost.
If the noid is normally closed when off, the dome port is blocked and therefore even though no positive pressure is being introduced, it's still trying to compress the air behind the valve which will cause it to make more boost.
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9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
Just unhook the ports at the dome with just the reference hooked from bottom port to compressor housing. See what it does. This eliminates the boost controller entirely. If it is still making too much boost, then it's not the controller. And you can continue to narrow it down.
If the noid is normally closed when off, the dome port is blocked and therefore even though no positive pressure is being introduced, it's still trying to compress the air behind the valve which will cause it to make more boost.
If the noid is normally closed when off, the dome port is blocked and therefore even though no positive pressure is being introduced, it's still trying to compress the air behind the valve which will cause it to make more boost.
If the compressor side is N/C, then the other two will be Common and N/O so freely vented to atmosphere when de-energised.
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Verdad Gallardo On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 179
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From: West Palm Beach, FL
Didn't see the diagram and that it's a single noid system. I'd still eliminate the controller and see what it does on wastegate before doing anything else.
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 179
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From: West Palm Beach, FL
What are the specifics of the kit. How many cubes? What turbos? What size gates? Picture of location on pipe? Have you tried taking out one of the springs? Just because they are rated at 14.5 psi doesn't mean that they make 14.5 psi in every setup.
9 Second Club
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From: Norn Iron
Controller turned off, solenoid de-energised should be lowest base pressure. ie spring pressure, give or take a little, if it is plumbed correctly and as per that drawing.
IF...
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2014
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Why don't you remove the black or red spring from each wastegate to start. You should always be able to turn the boost up with the controller once you get it sorted out. Also, It looks like that kit comes with F38 wastegates which didn't have a black spring. What wastegates do you have?
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2007
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replace the solinoide and checked all hoses using a smoke pressure tool every things seems fine
then unpluged the waste gates and checked if they are working by applying pressure they was fine
then finally applyed a known pressure to check when they are open and find they start to open at about 22 PSI
so the problem from the springs is rated wrong
so i removed the red springs and put the greens so now i have black and green
when applyed pressure they open at nearly 14 PSI which i need
i will test the car and let you all know
but i have one more question
if my springs rated to 14 psi could i adjust the boost controler to decrease the boost to 10 PSI ??
then unpluged the waste gates and checked if they are working by applying pressure they was fine
then finally applyed a known pressure to check when they are open and find they start to open at about 22 PSI
so the problem from the springs is rated wrong
so i removed the red springs and put the greens so now i have black and green
when applyed pressure they open at nearly 14 PSI which i need
i will test the car and let you all know
but i have one more question
if my springs rated to 14 psi could i adjust the boost controler to decrease the boost to 10 PSI ??
9 Second Club
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From: Norn Iron
But it would be mechanical limitations causing it, nothing to do with the controller itself.
If you want a lowest setting of 10psi, then you really need to use 10psi springs and take it from there.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2007
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ok tryed the car yesterday
the boost came down to 19 PSI
so it seems there is some thing in my setup yeild to more boost than expected by the wastegates springs
Now i need to keep just one single spring ( maybe 8 PSI spring ) which i think will make around 10 PSI
tben i will use the boost controler to increase the boost
But what in my setup could make the boost more than the springs desired boost ?
i have full 3" pipes but 2.5 axle back
could it be the back pressure ?
the boost came down to 19 PSI
so it seems there is some thing in my setup yeild to more boost than expected by the wastegates springs
Now i need to keep just one single spring ( maybe 8 PSI spring ) which i think will make around 10 PSI
tben i will use the boost controler to increase the boost
But what in my setup could make the boost more than the springs desired boost ?
i have full 3" pipes but 2.5 axle back
could it be the back pressure ?
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 179
Likes: 1
From: West Palm Beach, FL
There are lots of variables and it doesn't really matter. The rating on the spring is for the amount of pressure it takes to open it not that it makes that much boost. If you ever switch to CO2 control on the WG, you'll see that it takes more CO2 to effect boost pressure as you climb the map. So you might find that adding 5 psi of CO2 on the gate (on top of your 7 lb spring) might make 15 psi of boost but it'll take you another 10 psi of CO2 to get to 20 psi of boost.
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
ok tryed the car yesterday
the boost came down to 19 PSI
so it seems there is some thing in my setup yeild to more boost than expected by the wastegates springs
Now i need to keep just one single spring ( maybe 8 PSI spring ) which i think will make around 10 PSI
tben i will use the boost controler to increase the boost
But what in my setup could make the boost more than the springs desired boost ?
i have full 3" pipes but 2.5 axle back
could it be the back pressure ?
the boost came down to 19 PSI
so it seems there is some thing in my setup yeild to more boost than expected by the wastegates springs
Now i need to keep just one single spring ( maybe 8 PSI spring ) which i think will make around 10 PSI
tben i will use the boost controler to increase the boost
But what in my setup could make the boost more than the springs desired boost ?
i have full 3" pipes but 2.5 axle back
could it be the back pressure ?
You have not plumbed them in a manner where you will be able to achieve that lowest base spring setting.
Connect compressor signal line to Port 3
Connect bottom chamber to Port 2
Leave Port 1 vented.
Leave top chambers vented to atmosphere.
You're basically configuring it as an internal gate style plumbing. Unless you have very high levels of exhaust backpressure this will give you all the control you need, and your 10psi setting.