What is the best product to "glue" heads on??
10-10-2014, 10:01 AM
#1
What is the best product to "glue" heads on?? I have gone on dry now twice, and have pushed water every time. LS9 HGs on new TFS 220s. I am pulling the heads again this weekend. I will have them surfaced to make sure they are straight, and I will do the HGs again next weekend. The last time I put one together fresh, I used the Permatex copper coat and with milled 243s and the most basic ARP studs, I did not push any water for close to a year. This combo has been a pusher since day 1 with ARP 2000s.
I have heard that Hylomar is good. I have experience with copper spray, anything else? Hoping to keep it together this time and absolutely will be using some kind of sealant.
Thanks in advance,
Mike
I have heard that Hylomar is good. I have experience with copper spray, anything else? Hoping to keep it together this time and absolutely will be using some kind of sealant.
Thanks in advance,
Mike
10-10-2014, 10:18 AM
#3
I assume you are getting head lift - combustion pressure enters water.
There are a few solutions I've seen used in other engines that work pretty well.
Adding a reciever groove to the block or head and making a copper wire "o-ring" to cut into the MLS some helps create a tighter seal on the MLS (usually without loosing the seal on water and oil jackets).
There are different approaches such as the "pyramid ring" or "crush ring" gaskets that have a sharp stainless steel edge that cuts a groove into the head (crush rings are usually head and block) to create a tighter seal.
There are a few solutions I've seen used in other engines that work pretty well.
Adding a reciever groove to the block or head and making a copper wire "o-ring" to cut into the MLS some helps create a tighter seal on the MLS (usually without loosing the seal on water and oil jackets).
There are different approaches such as the "pyramid ring" or "crush ring" gaskets that have a sharp stainless steel edge that cuts a groove into the head (crush rings are usually head and block) to create a tighter seal.
10-10-2014, 10:22 AM
#4
I assume you are getting head lift - combustion pressure enters water.
There are a few solutions I've seen used in other engines that work pretty well.
Adding a reciever groove to the block or head and making a copper wire "o-ring" to cut into the MLS some helps create a tighter seal on the MLS (usually without loosing the seal on water and oil jackets).
There are different approaches such as the "pyramid ring" or "crush ring" gaskets that have a sharp stainless steel edge that cuts a groove into the head (crush rings are usually head and block) to create a tighter seal.
There are a few solutions I've seen used in other engines that work pretty well.
Adding a reciever groove to the block or head and making a copper wire "o-ring" to cut into the MLS some helps create a tighter seal on the MLS (usually without loosing the seal on water and oil jackets).
There are different approaches such as the "pyramid ring" or "crush ring" gaskets that have a sharp stainless steel edge that cuts a groove into the head (crush rings are usually head and block) to create a tighter seal.
Mike
10-10-2014, 01:32 PM
#7
ha I understand. I use ls1 stock gaskets on 5.3s had a long talk with the guys over at scoggindickey.com and thats what they recommended and I sprayed with that copper coat from permatex. No problems have done 3 with boost and Chinese head studs no issues
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10-10-2014, 01:40 PM
#8
^^Copper Spray from Permatex. Did it with my 600+hp SR20 build pushing 28 PSI no issues. Buddies of mine did the same with 2JZ swaps with 22-30 PSI...no issues. Spray a light coat on the head and a light coat on the gasket.
10-10-2014, 01:56 PM
#9
2 benefits of a MLS gasket... (Not that there aren't other benefits as well.)
1.) Its ability to move as the block/head expand at different rates.
2.) Its ability to transfer heat between the head/block.
By using any type of sealer on the gasket you loose those benefits. GM even put out a service letter on this exact subject. In short, MLS should always go on dry.
Hundreds of us are doing it without an issue. You must have some sort of deck surface, or tune issue. The addition of Sealer won't help with that. I've pinged 29lbs a few times and never pushed a drop of coolant with the same studs and HG. Also ran 34lbs on my daily 4g63 setup with an MLS installed dry.
That being said, I know lots of guys that swear by the permatex spray mentioned above. In my turbo buick days we used a single SS "shim" head gasket and Dow Corning 995 structural silicone. It held up much better than the permatex FWIW. We used a small paint roller to apply it. The buick head gasket kits these days even come with that sealer.
http://rjcracing.com/product/head-gasket/
Good luck!
1.) Its ability to move as the block/head expand at different rates.
2.) Its ability to transfer heat between the head/block.
By using any type of sealer on the gasket you loose those benefits. GM even put out a service letter on this exact subject. In short, MLS should always go on dry.
Hundreds of us are doing it without an issue. You must have some sort of deck surface, or tune issue. The addition of Sealer won't help with that. I've pinged 29lbs a few times and never pushed a drop of coolant with the same studs and HG. Also ran 34lbs on my daily 4g63 setup with an MLS installed dry.
That being said, I know lots of guys that swear by the permatex spray mentioned above. In my turbo buick days we used a single SS "shim" head gasket and Dow Corning 995 structural silicone. It held up much better than the permatex FWIW. We used a small paint roller to apply it. The buick head gasket kits these days even come with that sealer.
http://rjcracing.com/product/head-gasket/
Good luck!
Last edited by Forcefed86; 10-10-2014 at 07:58 PM.
10-10-2014, 02:43 PM
#11
This is not a discussion of the "correct way" to do it. This is a discussion of which sealant people have the most positive experiences with.
The only gasket I would try dry at this point, is the black Fel-Pro Permatorque. I heard you practically have to chisel that off of the block, it seals so hard.
Mike
The only gasket I would try dry at this point, is the black Fel-Pro Permatorque. I heard you practically have to chisel that off of the block, it seals so hard.
Mike
10-10-2014, 04:04 PM
#12
i say get a dead flat piece of machined steel and glue a sheet of 400 grit wet/dry paper to it and hit that block a little bit and flatten out the high spots. mill the heads or hand lap them the same way and put it together dry with ls9's again. im sure it will cure it . i do this to anything i work on and it always shows high spots and machining flaws.
10-10-2014, 04:09 PM
#13
I think the Permatex is coating the factory sealant on the LS9's and causing a sealing problem. I install mine dry. No issues. Last time I pulled my heads I was amazed how well they were "Glued" to the deck. Plus I clean my surfaces with a stone and alcohol. My.02
10-10-2014, 11:22 PM
#16
Doesn't show the leak.. but the rest of the info is here....
12.0-12.5 AFR and 16* and 16lbs on C16. Melting plug strap as well.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...ng-7-plug.html
12.0-12.5 AFR and 16* and 16lbs on C16. Melting plug strap as well.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...ng-7-plug.html
Last edited by Forcefed86; 10-11-2014 at 10:52 AM.
10-11-2014, 01:08 AM
#18
I've always used ls1 gaskets and sprayed em with this Mike.
Even when I first started out with LS motors and ran WAY too much timing, I never lifted a head, just butted rings and windowed a motor. If the LS9 gaskets are similar to the LS1/Ls6, I'd give the copper spray a try.
Even when I first started out with LS motors and ran WAY too much timing, I never lifted a head, just butted rings and windowed a motor. If the LS9 gaskets are similar to the LS1/Ls6, I'd give the copper spray a try.
10-11-2014, 09:48 PM
#19
Doesn't show the leak.. but the rest of the info is here....
12.0-12.5 AFR and 16* and 16lbs on C16. Melting plug strap as well.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...ng-7-plug.html
12.0-12.5 AFR and 16* and 16lbs on C16. Melting plug strap as well.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...ng-7-plug.html
It has pushed water on 10* of timing and 12 psi at an 11.2 AFR, for example.
Oh, and I did not melt the ground strap. I removed the porcelain.
10-11-2014, 09:53 PM
#20
That was totally different and exclusive of the pushing water altogether. Actually, the leaner I ran the car and the more timing I gave it with C16...the less it pushed.
It has pushed water on 10* of timing and 12 psi at an 11.2 AFR, for example.
Oh, and I did not melt the ground strap. I removed the porcelain.
It has pushed water on 10* of timing and 12 psi at an 11.2 AFR, for example.
Oh, and I did not melt the ground strap. I removed the porcelain.
Although your first sentence in the post I linked was...
I am having issues with #7. I have nipped the ground strap twice