I am having a hard time figuring out what fuel to use and need to make a decision asap. I have Id 1000 injectors with lonnies double pumper kit sitting on the bench. I was planning on 91+ meth but now I'm thinking about just getting e85 and storing it in a drum. I just hate the fact that if the meth kit fails my engine is gone. But on the other hand the e85 will be safer but it's not as available and seems that it gums up injectors quite often. Goals are 800 hp turbo forged 5.3 retaining a/c. Mainly street driven. At what hp will 91+ meth will safely get me too? 9.6:1 compression

 

Depending on where you get the E85, the time of year, etc.. it may gum injectors up.

There are lots of ways to prevent this, though. There are new filters and additives available that help prevent any of the black buildup on injectors.

 

What's the additive?

I've had rather good luck on e85 so I think it's subjective. I do try to run the car often and over the winter I emptied the tank and Ran some 93 octane to pickle the system. With the Bosch style injectors such as my FIC 2000cc or even the ID 2000 they are susceptible to internal corrosion and rusting. I spoke to ID about this and they recommend every so often running 93 octane through the injectors as gasoline has lubricating properties that are not present with e85.

 

What does it run like on 93? How much are you running through? Seems like it would be extremely rich

 

It's actually not that rich and I only run it through for a little bit of time on a cold start. I hover around 11.5 on the wideband. I do have another file setup for gasoline so I'll probably flash that on when the weather is nice and drive it around a little bit. At least get more part throttle going

 

Since E85 is a solvent it will break down any material which is not compatible and also breakdown most of the left over "gunk" in your fuel tank. Add to that the fact that E85 is a dirtier fuel than octane, hard to believe I know, as there is less restriction as far as the particulates/solid matter in the fuel as per the regulation.

I have seen E85 run successfully and this has been the formula:
-Clean out fuel tank and all residual (some type of power washing with a strong solvent)
-Stainless steel fuel filter, many have done it with paper just telling you what I have seen (100 micron and secondary <40 micron...I had a 10 installed in mine).
-Make sure fuel line and fuel components are compatible with E85...make sure the parts in the fuel tank are E85 submersible not just compatible.
-Try and not let E85 sit in the setup for a prolonged period of time (over the winter etc). People have gotten away with it but once again, from what has been the experience up here in the NorthEast.
-^^^^As noted above, some companies recommend running an occasional batch of octane here and there.

 

The id1000 are much better off in that environment than the 2000s. They are very different injectors

Fwiw I had horrible black goo problems at one time. It would plug my fine post pump filter and black all over in intake and injectors.

I had id1000s and they never missed a beat, they don't have the top filters on the injectors, neither do my 1300s

 

I just had my ID1000's out. After running the Lucas additive, just a hint of goo. Nothing like before I ran the Lucas.

I had to buy top hats for my injectors to work with the ProFlow intake and rails. The top hats have the little screens.

I looked at them with my microscope (I'm old!) and if I use my imagination, there might be a spec or two in a few. No goo though. I do run a 10 micron diesel paper filter pre pump. Never saw goo in it either.

Plastic cell with foam. The foam is holding up fine so far.

E85 doesn't seem to be a run it and forget it fuel. But checking this stuff isn't that difficult. And it certainly has benefits in our turbo cars.

Does make me wonder what passenger cars look like in areas of the country with goo though...,

 

For those that have the "black goo" problem from buildup in the tank that makes its way to through the fuel system. Where you live do you have 10-15% ethanol in your 87-93oct pump gas like I do in Illinois?

Reason I ask is my tank is absolutely immaculate and it makes me wonder if having that 10% in my pump gas for all those years has kept the tank and fuel system exceptionally clean as a byproduct.

Edit:I'm running the stock paper filter and it's absolutely fine. I cut open the last one I had in there and it looked brand new after 2 seasons of e85

 

Hell my paper 10 micron filter jammed up with "black goo" after a month on 93.. im wondering if thats just the cheap AN fuel lines.

 

While issues can arise from the cleansing action of the ethanol on the fuel system. Most issues are from the suppliers /story

Mine was a brand new tank and lines, and fuel was from brand new station.... New pumps, tanks, and it was still horrible

Start cutting the blend with premium and completely went away

 

I think there are 3 separate problems here…

Problem 1) Pre-injector “goo” that clogs filters is not the same as post injector “goo”. I know it exists, but I’ve never seen pre-injector Goo. I started with 100% new fuel system. Poly tank/SS lines/anodized fittings. I split my paper element filters yearly and have never had a problem there. Everything pre-injector looks great. If you’re getting crap in your filters I believe it’s either form your existing dirty tank, fuel system, or some sort of problem from the stations fuel filtration. I don’t believe Goo can “grow” in a clean fuel system and clog filters.

Problem 2) I have always had problems with post injector Goo. (on several cars over 5-6 years) Build up on the injectors is form a chemical crashing out of the fuel mixture post injector. This isn’t going to hurt or clog an injector internally. But it can build up enough to eventually cause flow and spray pattern issues. Injector design, leakage, driving habits all play a big roll. Cycling pump gas or adding toluene, carb defender, Lucas, etc all seem to help with this.

Problem 3) Similar to methanol, ethanol will “Gel”. From what I’ve read the fuel needs to mix with free air and/or moisture to “Gel”. At the start of the 2014 race season I installed new 160lb injectors. I had an engine failure mid 2014 (unrelated to goo) and pulled my injectors/rail and let them sit for a few weeks while I threw in a replacement engine. I believe this caused a problem internally with one of the injectors causing it to flow significantly less. I ran the spare engine the last half of the season without any noticeable issues. Tore this engine out a week ago and found the #8 rod bent. Took my injectors in to be flowed and found the #8 was down on flow. Graph isn’t a great representation. Was basically flowing 6% less at that DC. We pulled the injector screens and found no material in them. Sonic cleaned the injector and it flows like new. So I’m assuming this was due to some sort of gel or buildup internally. I also have no proof the slightly low flowing injector caused my #8 rod to bend. Sure seems likely though.

 

For what its worth, Ive built many setups over the last 6 yrs using ID2000, FIC2000, and FIS2000 injectors and have never had a Issue with E85 clogging the injectors and forming a goo. I've never had to send a set in for cleaning. Only issue I had was a couple orings were leaking but that was due to holleys awesome machining heights on a hi ram and the injectors were loose.

 

So either I can rely on a methanol with pump gas or run e85 and probably eventually have injectors problems. Sounds like a either way stinks!
I'm thinking maybe abandon methanol and street tune it on 91 and from there tune on 110. 500 hp on 91 safe???

 

You won’t get near the performance from pump and water/meth injection as you would from straight E85 IMO. But I don’t see any reason a properly maintained water/meth kit isn’t as reliable as fuel injection in general. They are cheap too.

E50 and water meth would be a good compromise if you have it available. Should have enough gas in the Ethanol mix that goo wouldn’t be an issue. And the meth on top of the E50 should provide some pretty good knock suppression. rotary1307cc is running some pretty impressive numbers on E50 with a little water/meth...

 

Both methods have their caveats, but that's the price to pay for having a high hp application where premium 93 octane isn't enough. You could run race gas but that becomes pricey especially if dd the car during the nice months.

 

Another thing to note is that ID sells an all stainless steal 1300cc injector that was designed for e85 applications. This of course doesn't fix all of the potential issues that could arrise running e85 and it's worth noting that alot of us have great luck with e85 such as myself.

 

I think e50 is all win IMO . less fuel demand, lost the goo issues, and still can go a long ways

I have always ran a very small 50/50 nozzle just because it has been on the car from back in the day and it keeps the motor so nice inside, but I dont need it on the e50

This late summer I was running my id1300s static on e50- ~23psi and I didn't have to run the water, it was happy with or without it

With my id1000s static on e50 the car would run 163mph, so on the id1300s maxed it was making power, just never made a pass on the track to see how much before the block played out

 

No e50 available here

 

Gotcha!!! Will it store in a drum better than e85 half full?