Issues to resolve before play-time!
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Raleigh, NC
Issues to resolve before play-time! I finally got a couple of street tunings going.
Issue I had to fix: pulley and belt alignment had to be addressed when I put the Superdamper/ATI CP and 8-Rib setup on. I think I have that worked out, now.
On to my current issues to work on.
It's almost as if the fuel is mostly concentrated in the passenger-side rail when I first go WOT, but soon it is concentrated mostly in the driver-side rail as I move.
Check out the EFILive logs below.
So:
Issue 1: I think I may have to do a parallel setup; Y the fuel flow.
LS1-Speed thought the rails would be large enough that it just would not matter.
Even though I appear to be getting more volume, I am not getting it evenly.
Issue 1: I see some belt slippage because the 3.3" SC pulley is too small to tighten the 40.0" belt any more, but too large for the 39.2" and 39.3" belts I've managed to find. The perfect belt would be 39.5", but I can't find that in an 8-Rib... not so far.
Issue 2: I have to find the right combination of Inj Flow Rate and fuel pressure (while maintaining LTFT's at 0) and RPM per PE to get enough fuel and keep the Inj Duty Cycle between 80% to 90% max. O2s were as high as .980 in some places when I first started tuning!
.905 with my cats has been about 11.7 AFR at the dyno
.920 to .930 has been about 11.2 to 11.4 on the dyno
93 Octane, 0.1 to .8 KR
I did these on a roll since I still have my P285/40 ZR17 Nittos (not DR) on
60 PSI base fuel pressure.
I saw about 13 PSI boost
1st Gear Run
Separate 2nd Gear Run
I saw only 10 or 11 PSI here.
0.0 KR
62 PSI Fuel base pressure.
I saw close to 14 PSI boostin first gear and
it dropped to 10 PSI boost in 2nd
1st & 2nd Gear contiguous run
Issue I had to fix: pulley and belt alignment had to be addressed when I put the Superdamper/ATI CP and 8-Rib setup on. I think I have that worked out, now.
On to my current issues to work on.
It's almost as if the fuel is mostly concentrated in the passenger-side rail when I first go WOT, but soon it is concentrated mostly in the driver-side rail as I move.
Check out the EFILive logs below.
So:
Issue 1: I think I may have to do a parallel setup; Y the fuel flow.
LS1-Speed thought the rails would be large enough that it just would not matter.
Even though I appear to be getting more volume, I am not getting it evenly.
Issue 1: I see some belt slippage because the 3.3" SC pulley is too small to tighten the 40.0" belt any more, but too large for the 39.2" and 39.3" belts I've managed to find. The perfect belt would be 39.5", but I can't find that in an 8-Rib... not so far.
Issue 2: I have to find the right combination of Inj Flow Rate and fuel pressure (while maintaining LTFT's at 0) and RPM per PE to get enough fuel and keep the Inj Duty Cycle between 80% to 90% max. O2s were as high as .980 in some places when I first started tuning!
.905 with my cats has been about 11.7 AFR at the dyno
.920 to .930 has been about 11.2 to 11.4 on the dyno
93 Octane, 0.1 to .8 KR
I did these on a roll since I still have my P285/40 ZR17 Nittos (not DR) on
60 PSI base fuel pressure.
I saw about 13 PSI boost
1st Gear Run
Code:
RPMs MPH O2L O2R IPW IDC ---- ---- --- --- ----- ----- 2643 11.2 894 933 12.90 28.4 3332 19.3 911 938 15.30 42.6 4299 27.3 920 951 18.80 67.2 5099 32.3 916 755 22.90 97.2 6021 37.9 933 894 20.90 105.0 6592 41.6 929 760 19.30 106.0 6911 43.5 924 877 18.30 106.0 6991 43.5 924 764 18.20 106.0
I saw only 10 or 11 PSI here.
Code:
RPMs MPH O2L O2R IPW IDC ---- ---- --- --- ----- ----- 3094 34.2 903 929 14.30 36.70 3740 36.0 920 955 16.30 50.70 4142 39.8 929 964 18.20 62.80 4330 44.7 938 968 18.50 66.90 4721 51.6 938 898 22.40 87.90 5001 55.3 942 903 22.50 93.90 4915 55.3 946 929 22.40 91.80 4893 53.4 946 903 22.40 91.20 4812 51.6 946 885 22.30 89.30 4802 53.4 942 898 21.90 87.70 5026 57.2 938 699 22.60 94.60 5220 60.3 951 729 22.70 98.70 5523 63.4 942 933 22.30 103.00 5616 64.6 942 911 22.00 103.00 5825 68.4 942 777 21.10 102.00 5945 69.6 933 833 20.80 103.00 6078 70.8 938 894 20.50 104.00 6140 72.1 929 877 20.30 104.00 6216 73.3 929 720 20.00 104.00 6259 74.6 929 707 19.80 103.00 6445 75.2 924 807 19.60 105.00
62 PSI Fuel base pressure.
I saw close to 14 PSI boostin first gear and
it dropped to 10 PSI boost in 2nd
1st & 2nd Gear contiguous run
Code:
RPMs MPH O2L O2R IPW IDC ---- ---- --- --- ----- ----- 2958 23.6 924 964 14.10 34.70 4318 27.3 942 972 17.50 62.90 5154 32.3 929 885 22.40 96.30 6110 37.9 942 851 20.60 105.00 5708 65.9 951 755 21.80 103.00 5760 66.5 946 842 21.50 103.00 5832 67.7 942 924 21.20 103.00 5859 67.7 946 929 21.20 103.00 5823 68.4 951 964 21.10 103.00 5896 68.4 942 877 21.00 103.00 5931 68.4 942 920 20.90 103.00 5857 68.4 946 794 20.90 102.00 5882 68.4 942 803 21.00 103.00 5846 67.1 938 933 21.00 103.00
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,048
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From: Raleigh, NC
The 8-Rib Idler is very wide. It was touching my alternator belt.
I shimmed the bracket out by two or three small washers and that made the belt walk off the SC pulley. I shimmed the SC pulley on the D-1SC and that lined it back up.
I also ground the width of the idler pulley down to get more safety in case some flexing of components created a problem. There's still plenty of surface area on the idler pulley to handle things.
Of course, that does not mean you will have alignment issues. Every car seems to be a little different.
Hope that helps.
I shimmed the bracket out by two or three small washers and that made the belt walk off the SC pulley. I shimmed the SC pulley on the D-1SC and that lined it back up.
I also ground the width of the idler pulley down to get more safety in case some flexing of components created a problem. There's still plenty of surface area on the idler pulley to handle things.
Of course, that does not mean you will have alignment issues. Every car seems to be a little different.
Hope that helps.
What diameter is the ATI 8 rib crank pulley Mike? I think I may go with that setup (between that and an ATI damper/SDCE setup) want to stay NHRA legal and thats the last thing left..
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,048
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From: Raleigh, NC
kp - I believe it's 7.5", but I'm not sure.
BigBos, yep. I skipped the 3.6" and went straight to the 3.3". I think a 3.20 pulley MAY have gotten me over the belt hurdle of using a 39.2" Gatorback. The idler adjust is right at the stop once the belt stretches out on a 40.0"
BigBos, yep. I skipped the 3.6" and went straight to the 3.3". I think a 3.20 pulley MAY have gotten me over the belt hurdle of using a 39.2" Gatorback. The idler adjust is right at the stop once the belt stretches out on a 40.0"
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TECH Senior Member
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Posts: 11,603
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From: Chi-Town, IL
Try grinding out a little extra room in the slot so you can push down a little more 
I did it in the opposite direction for the Cogs
You will know when the belt is slipping with the RR's becuase they will EAT the ribs off the belt and you will see most of it on the blower
I did it in the opposite direction for the Cogs
You will know when the belt is slipping with the RR's becuase they will EAT the ribs off the belt and you will see most of it on the blower
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i would swap o2 sensors to see if that lean side stays where it's at or moves with the sensor. you should have certainly had some detonation if some of those numbers were legit.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by BIGBOS
Try grinding out a little extra room in the slot so you can push down a little more
I did it in the opposite direction for the Cogs
I did it in the opposite direction for the Cogs
Maybe I'll see if grinding at the top of the slot will let me put the 39.2" belt on.
It will be considerably more difficult doing that to the steel bracket than the aluminum one, though.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Downers Grove,IL
Black LS1 T/A, you need a wideband to tune properly IMO. I always log my wideband and have seen my factory o2's read .890 when the wideband shows 10.2 A-F! The wideband will respond very quickly showing an erratic A-F curve while the stock o2's just stay at a sort of flatline.
When you log a wideband along with the stock o2's you'll see how inaccurate the stock o2's really are.
So I would seriously consider at least borrowing one while you tune the beast.
When you log a wideband along with the stock o2's you'll see how inaccurate the stock o2's really are.
So I would seriously consider at least borrowing one while you tune the beast.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Raleigh, NC
No detonation. With 93 Octane at 10 ~ 13 PSI, I've cut the timing back considerably:
Code:
TPA LOAD GEAR RPM MPH Tmg KR O2B1 O2B2 IPW1 IDC1 fMAF ----- ----- ---- ---- ---- ---- --- --- --- ----- ------ ----- 100.0 74.9 1st 2958 23.6 14.5 0.0 924 964 14.10 34.70 8759 100.0 100.0 1st 4318 27.3 11.0 0.0 942 972 17.50 62.90 10725 100.0 100.0 1st 5154 32.3 10.5 0.0 929 885 22.40 96.30 11082 100.0 100.0 2nd 6110 37.9 10.5 0.0 942 851 20.60 105.00 11515 100.0 100.0 2nd 5708 65.9 10.5 0.0 951 755 21.80 103.00 11410 100.0 100.0 2nd 5760 66.5 10.5 0.0 946 842 21.50 103.00 11410 100.0 100.0 2nd 5832 67.7 10.5 0.0 942 924 21.20 103.00 11495 100.0 100.0 2nd 5859 67.7 10.5 0.0 946 929 21.20 103.00 11477 100.0 100.0 2nd 5823 68.4 10.5 0.0 951 964 21.10 103.00 11495 100.0 100.0 2nd 5896 68.4 10.5 0.0 942 877 21.00 103.00 11543 100.0 100.0 2nd 5931 68.4 10.5 0.0 942 920 20.90 103.00 11495 100.0 100.0 2nd 5857 68.4 10.5 0.0 946 794 20.90 102.00 11477 100.0 100.0 2nd 5882 68.4 10.5 0.0 942 803 21.00 103.00 11495 36.9 100.0 2nd 5846 67.1 10.5 0.0 938 933 21.00 103.00 11358
Thread Starter
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From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by S_J_H
right now your injectors are 100% static on the top end.
But, like I said, .905 with my Cats was about 11.7 or so AFR on the dyno, so if that follows, I MAY also have room to lower PE/RPM.
Thread Starter
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From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by MIGHTYMOUSE
i would swap o2 sensors to see if that lean side stays where it's at or moves with the sensor. you should have certainly had some detonation if some of those numbers were legit.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by S_J_H
Black LS1 T/A, you need a wideband to tune properly IMO. I always log my wideband and have seen my factory o2's read .890 when the wideband shows 10.2 A-F! The wideband will respond very quickly showing an erratic A-F curve while the stock o2's just stay at a sort of flatline.
When you log a wideband along with the stock o2's you'll see how inaccurate the stock o2's really are.
So I would seriously consider at least borrowing one while you tune the beast.
When you log a wideband along with the stock o2's you'll see how inaccurate the stock o2's really are.
So I would seriously consider at least borrowing one while you tune the beast.
I won't run it down the track until I get to a dyno.
I just need some numbers before I go there.
i would still swap them to see if the trend follows the bank or the sensor.. only 10 minutes work
my set up still runs the rails in series with -8 line.. no noticeable a/f difference bank to bank up to where they pushed it at tubotech.
once i calculated that the fuel flows at 3 ft/second if you y'd them, and that would be 6 ft/second for the first one if you ran it in series.... compared to the 14 ft/ second that the same amount of fuel would have to go through stock lines to get the same flow.
from that i decided that it was not necessary for me to run them parralel.
my set up still runs the rails in series with -8 line.. no noticeable a/f difference bank to bank up to where they pushed it at tubotech.
once i calculated that the fuel flows at 3 ft/second if you y'd them, and that would be 6 ft/second for the first one if you ran it in series.... compared to the 14 ft/ second that the same amount of fuel would have to go through stock lines to get the same flow.
from that i decided that it was not necessary for me to run them parralel.