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Or, How much hp do you think my current rods can handle? I might get everything setup and running with the engine I have after a freshen up. Then buy a nice rotating assy and turn up the boost.
Or, How much hp do you think my current rods can handle? I might get everything setup and running with the engine I have after a freshen up. Then buy a nice rotating assy and turn up the boost.
Usually start bending rods around 600-700whp. Some get away with more... some less.
That's what I was figuring. My other issue is room under the hood. I have considered a bed mounted system though. Just don't know about the delay that could cause with lag.
I have so many things in the fire right now I cant see straight. Trying to sell my insurance agency. Trying to get more work for my masonry company. And just started a home building and remodeling company that I am trying to get off the ground. I am the poorest 3 business owner in history. LOL. So money is tight and that's why I am going for a budget build. I want to have a little fun sooner than later. Otherwise this thing would have a super bad *** engine and big twins, full cage and maybe chassis. That's how I really like to build stuff. All I can get or nothing.
OK, been a while and I am about ready to pull the trigger on the turbo itself. And I have thought a lot about it and I think I am going to go with a rear mount in the bed. This way I can use my current exhaust which is true dual 2.5" on the Sanderson shorty headers. So all I'll have under the hood would be the cold side pipe and BOV. I think it should work out for me. But again, I am learning.
I found this one that I think will work and the price is good. What do you guys think about it working for me? HP range allows me to keep it down for the street and turn it up at the track.
At Turbodaves
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S400SX4-75mm T-6 1.32 A/R Exhaust 500-1050HP
$639.99 Free Shipping (To Lower 48 States Only)
Turbo Specs:
Compressor Inlet - 5 Inch
Compressor Outlet 4.21 Inch V-Band,
Compressor Wheel Inducer/Exducer - 75 x 100mm with ETT,
Turbine Wheel Inducer/Exducer - 96 x 87mm
Turbine Inlet - T-6 Divided,
Turbine Outlet - 5 Inch Marmon V-Band,
Turbine A/R - 1.32
OK, been a while and I am about ready to pull the trigger on the turbo itself. And I have thought a lot about it and I think I am going to go with a rear mount in the bed. This way I can use my current exhaust which is true dual 2.5" on the Sanderson shorty headers. So all I'll have under the hood would be the cold side pipe and BOV. I think it should work out for me. But again, I am learning.
I found this one that I think will work and the price is good. What do you guys think about it working for me? HP range allows me to keep it down for the street and turn it up at the track.
You lose alot of the heat between the valve exit and the turbo the farther back you go. For that reason I think the 1.32 housing would be on the laggy side. Esp with a 2.5" hotside. Better off with the 1.10 T6 housing.
If you keep the hotside as short as possible and put the turbo behind the cab it's not as bad. Still you'll want to neck down to 2.25" minimum from the collector to the turbo(s).
IMO if you go remote you should do twins. It will help with spool time and is just a more efficient setup than a single. You'll have better spool with less back pressure.
I've been looking at a set of T3 hy35's for a buddys remote build. They also have built in Wastegates for $201 each. They have nice wheel sizes and the smaller housings would help in a remote setup.
If moneys not a big deal S366 turbos are $550 each and more than capable of huge numbers.
i chose the CX racing 80mm stg3 ball bearing turbo with 1.15 a/r. HP numbers are coming in at 900 with 15lb of boost on 6.0 LQ4 stock internals. They're capable of 35lb,but moderate 24lb is netting hp in 1050hp or so range. I have a set of truck manifolds with 2.5" v band flanges already welded on if interested.
OK, On my current exhaust. It is 2.5" right now. I already plan to join them into 1 pipe and reduce it to what I need before the turbo. And Its pretty easy to join them right past the trany cross member. So I can get as small as needed to make a single work right. The turbo would be mounted as close to the cab as possible inside the bed. Im just trying to avoid a twin setup if possible. Less room needed, less piping, wont need 2 Wastegates ect.
I did have a feeling that the 1.32 A/R would be laggy at such a distance. If I can fit this turbo under the hood and get back to the standard setup, would it work well? I am just trying to avoid installing it under the hood because I don't have a ton of room to run everything and it will be really cluttered.
On the CX turbo. I am still trying to convince myself that Chinese is ok. LOL But its an option.
Yes I think that pipe setup will work fine. If you do go china, Vsracing tells a new 88mm with a large 83mm exh wheel For $525. I think it will work much better than the 78-80mm turbos with the smaller exhaust wheels like CXracing sells. It's also a 1.10 T4.
You sure that 88 stands for comp exducer and not inducer?? I couldn't find specs under that link. You gotta be careful looking at specs to mske sure comp wheel size is right or else you'll end up with a 68 or 70 turbo. As for the CHINA turbo thing there's a ton of folks running them out there and I for one would rather spend $600 twice in cars life instead of $2 or $3k just for a big name and get same results. I picked mine cause at least it's a ball bearing one.
Yea, I looked at the VS turbo as well and couldn't find specs on it. I think what I should do is get the turbo first that would work up front or in the bed. Then I can pick between the 2 locations. I just need to mock it up under the hood to see how its going to fit. So not a 1.32 AR so if it goes into the bed it wouldn't be as laggy. And if it goes under the hood with less AR then it would ne more snappy or come in sooner.
I don't mind the Chinese deal I guess. As you mentioned there are a lot of people running them and most run fine. So I just need to pick one. That's the hardest part of this venture, the choosing of a turbo that will work.
Need some advise on some things so I can start buying some parts. Also if you know some places to get deals, that's nice too. Again, I am trying to keep a good budget on this. Also I want to do this on the stock engine with no rebuild at first. Get it running and working to make sure that I have it right. Low boost of course. Then pull and rebuild the engine and turn it up.
I am leaning towards the CX turbo mentioned above due to it being a ball bearing. I would go with the VS as well if its a better setup for me. They just don't show specs on the website for it.
Oil pump system/pump in case I place it in the bed.
BOV, I am thinking 50mm. VS has the Tail for 220.00
Wastegate, not sure what size to get. Thinking 48 maybe.
IC, A/A I am going to try an get a 4" thick to fit. I will get the biggest I can fit. 3" in and out. I would like to go A/W but not sure how good this is for street use. How long might the ice last?
Deka 80lb injectors
I will need a new inline fuel pump. I currently have an Aeromotive A750 which isn't enough. I think this was mentioned before in this thread. I'll read back on it.
Pressure regulator.
Ok, Now to the stuff I need vs what will or can come later. And I do not know everything that's needed or that will help. So what do I need for now to get it going. Verus what are the nice extras to get later.
Boost gauge.
Maybe A/F gauge?
Hell that's about all I know. I know boost controllers but can this be set manually with springs?
Anything else?
For piping.
I plan to run all 3" on cold side from Turbo to TB. Will this be ok in both setup applications? Under hood and bed mount?
Hot side. If its bed mount. I currently have dual 2.5" I am guessing I would merge the two pipes into a single 2.5" and then reduce that single down to the 2.25" before the turbo. Any suggestions?
If under the hood I would come off the header or manifold with 2.25" and do the standard piping tot he flange.
For the bed mount. I know the mention of losing the temp in the exhaust pipe. Isnt that a good thing so it keeps the turbo temps down a little? Also the distance. This is a standard cab short bed truck. I am really not adding that much distance from under the hood setup. The opposite side manifold from the turbo is going to have quite a few feet of pipe to reach the turbo. It may only add a couple more feet to reach the bed. I will have to take some measurements.
Thanks for all the help guys. I have read and read until my eyes are crossed. But I still don't want to screw this up. I think I have the basics but....
For IC i went AA and got one CX suggested for that same turbo. It's 4" thick bar and plate i believe it's 21x12 and has 2psi drop @ 35psi boost. It was $179. If you msg them they'll give you link to item. My build is 81' malibu and I'll be tight up front fitting rad and IC without custom rad support. Good luck to you hope to see some pics soon. My buddy races an S10 with 565bbc full tube setup and 150 shot. Runs high 4's
You sure that 88 stands for comp exducer and not inducer?? I couldn't find specs under that link. You gotta be careful looking at specs to mske sure comp wheel size is right or else you'll end up with a 68 or 70 turbo. As for the CHINA turbo thing there's a ton of folks running them out there and I for one would rather spend $600 twice in cars life instead of $2 or $3k just for a big name and get same results. I picked mine cause at least it's a ball bearing one.
Yes I'm 100% positive... 88mm inducer on the comp wheel 83mm exducer on the exh wheel. And it will outperform the smaller wheel 80's CX sells.
Need some advise on some things so I can start buying some parts...
I gotta say, there's no such thing as a budget 1000hp engine or even an 800hp budget engine IMO.
All the ******* claiming 1000whp usually have closer to 600whp according to weight and trap speed. Ignore the dyno BS hype, look at weight and trap speed. 1000whp is more than the current SBE 6.0 record holder is making. I really don't think that number is a reality for most SBE guys.
That said...
VS BOV and WG sizes U mentioned are fine.
VERY little difference between a ball bearing VS standard journal bearing turbo on spool speed. Not worth the extra money. Since your going for the moon power wise, go with the biggest single you can afford. To have any chance of hitting your goals a really nice single ($1800+) or twins will be necessary IMO.
Your current pump doesn't flow well at boosted fuel injection pressures. (neither does the A1000) You want a pump that flows at decent pressures. To make 1000hp you'll need alot of flow at high pressure. If you don't want multiple pumps look at the 4303 magnafuel.
You'll pay 300-400 for a good scavenge pump. It's not something you really want to go cheap on. Ebay sells some knock off stuff, but I don't know anyone that's run it with success. Turbowerx, and RB racing make great pumps.
Usually 3" piping on the cold side is easiest and is MORE than enough diameter.
The mallory 4305 is a great FPR. Probably the cheapest "good" 1/2" in/out rising rate regulator out there.make sure to get the one for fuel injection. Think it's an "m".
On the exhaust side of the turbo you want as much heat as possible, heat is energy. The cooler the gasses get before they hit the turbo the less impact they have on it.
Dont get me wrong at all. I know the final goal is going to cost money. I'm good with that. But I am going into this slowly since I have zero experience with turbos. I would rather grenade a JY engine learning than a 10k engine. And I don't want to spend 10k on 5-600rwhp to start with. So my thought is to get the external parts needed that are capable of that bigger hp number later. So get it together on the stock engine, make it run and make 500+ rwhp, which the stock bottom end should handle for now and with very low psi levels. Figure out the turbo thing and then purchase the new rotating assy, cam, springs, lifters ect needed to make the engine live at 1000ish hp and let it eat. Of course for this truck to run that much hp will require a full cage and a bunch more suspension work. Not only to keep the truck safe, but me safe as well. I wont stop until it runs low 8's. Its just the way I am. Nothing is ever fast enough.
Yea, I agree with the numbers game. My engine should make 325 stock at the crank plus a little extra with the external add ons. Its not. I am running about 1 second lower in the 1/4 than it should run. Its tired. Times, trap speed and weight is always how I figure hp numbers.
For the parts, sounds good to me. I was only looking at the one turbo for the ball bearings so it might spool faster. But I like the other turbo for the size that you mentioned. And no, I don't want to spend 2k on one right now. Lets see where I can get with this one first.
As for heat in the pipe. If I run the bed mount, I could always wrap the pipe all the way to the turbo flange to help retain as much heat as possible. Do you think that could help it out a little? I do.
How do you think an air to water cooler would do on the street? I could get all this mounted in the bed and get all the rear weight I can get and all that happens up front is the intake pipe and BOV. If I have to use and Air to Air for the street then I would want to mount it up front for airflow. Which then adds about 5 to 6 feet of added pipe before I get to the TB. I am not sure if the length of the cold side is a big deal or not. I wouldn't think so other than maybe a little added pressure drop/loss.
Yes wrapping the pipe is a good idea, most remote guys do it.
A2W is also a great idea. They do not require ICE to work well. The water in your IC tank will be around ambient temps. The IC pump that circulates the water is usually run off a boost or WOT switch. So the water only circulates in boost. Just like an A2A uses ambient temp air to cool, the A2W is using ambient water to cool. ICE is just a bonus for track day. I’d suggest a large 1” drain on any tank you run as you will want the ability to drain and fill it quickly at the track. Also Igloo coolers work really well as intercooler water tanks. The typical alum A2W tanks sweat like crazy and make a huge mess.
Cold pipe length and diameter all affect response. Shortest routing is best. Smallest diameter without limiting overall power is best. Anything else is just adding volume to the system. If you went with twins you could use 2” cold side pipes feeding the intercooler. Response would be great. You could feed the IC with 2.5” pipe with a single turbo. Just step it up or down at the coupler as needed. Lots of opinions on the proper cold size piping and how to calculate it. From what I’ve read you size the cold side by NA flow. The turbo only makes the charge more dense. 2.5” will easily support 400hp NA. IMO If you’re not making over 400 crank HP NA using tubing over 2.5” is not beneficial in anyway.
I gotta say, there's no such thing as a budget 1000hp engine or even an 800hp budget engine IMO.
All the ******* claiming 1000whp usually have closer to 600whp according to weight and trap speed. Ignore the dyno BS hype, look at weight and trap speed. 1000whp is more than the current SBE 6.0 record holder is making. I really don't think that number is a reality for most SBE guys.
That said...
.
Jarrett recently put his Nova on the dyno. He upgraded to forged pistons/rods and put 1 more PSI in it IIRC (25 vs 24). Judging by the numbers it made through a glide, he was making well over 1000 HP on his SBE 6.0.
Taxman, that being said, he sure as hell knows what he's doing. A guy on the Sloppy mechanics facebook page yesterday said he was wanting to run twin 70mm turbos on his junkyard engine and run 30 PSI. His first turbo build BTW. Most people don't understand that there is more to it than throwing on a big turbo, getting a half-assed tune, and running 20+ PSI.
I always suggest making things as universal as possible so that you can change things around later without too much effort. Decide on a turbo flange, T4 or T6, and place it somewhere that will allow you to upgrade or downgrade turbo sizes later. If you make anything too setup specific, you'll find yourself needing to make more difficult changes later on. Keep that in mind when going through all of these ideas.
On the air to water IC. The reason I asked about running them for street use is that the water will remove the heat from the air charge and that is going to heat the water. And at some point the water isn't going to cool the air enough. So the water needs to be cooled back down somehow. Where the air to air is always going to cool with ambient temps. But I am leaning towards the air to water setup.
As for the entire setup. I am already trying to design the system to work at a low psi range for the stock engine with room to add more power when I build the engine to handle the added boost. But I also want to be able to interchange parts like the turbo later. So when its done, it should be able to make swaps pretty easily with little or no modifying.
06-20-2015, 07:38 AM
