Just looking to see what you'd rec'd for my set-up which is a strictly track car that will run on 100% Methanol for fuel.

From research i know many say a radiator is not needed but i'd feel more comfortable having something (even very small w/ a fan on it) to help cool if going rounds as i don't have a fancy expensive fluid x-change set-up.

I currently have an AFCO scirocco rad as i was initially going to run E85 for fuel but with space as limitied as it is on my chassis i'd like to entertain the smallest rad i can get away with to ease the packaging of everything up front (2 turbos, fuel cell, radiator, catch can) if not i will likely have to lay the Afco down horizontal under the 2 turbos facing forward.

Pics for reference but please ignore the black fuel cell behind the rad that was there when i picked up the chassis but plans are to move it in front of either the driver or pass front tire as i'm just out of space and don't care to mount it in the back as i'd then have to fab a rear firewall and then run a cable off my belt driven Enderle FP

 

If running 100% methanol, on a track only car, a radiator is not needed at all. methanol burns cool, so it does not build heat like gasoline or even e85. I would not worry about it and enjoy being able to have more freedom in the engine bay without the constraints of a rad.

 

Not a bad idea to pump water through the heads only, even with methanol IMO. That way you don't have to run it rich in pits, staging, etc... Look at the honda "race" alum 3 core radiators for a small cheap/easy solution.

What block are you using? What are the power goals?

 

Thanks for the reply and please don't take this the worng way but do you speak from 1st hand experience at the track with a non radiator alcohol set-up?

I'm new to this......my previous experience was always with pump, race, or ethanol fuels and i've always had a radiator on those cars but from my research lots of people say it's not needed at all but i find that hard to believe but i'm sure those cars are a little different than mine.

Block and heads still have water in them so i figure it'd be smart to circulate fluid between rounds and at that point i'd figure a small rad and fan would help out when we typically race when temps are in the 80-90's or more in the middle of sumer.

If anyone has some data to post i'd appreciate it reagrding logs of coolant temps during or after a pass or to see how quickly the coolant comes up to operating temp so i know how much time i'll have to play with.

Car will probably be towed to and from pit area but i'd like some buffer just in case i need to drive it around for any reason in the pits.....

 

Yes. My dad's shop builds 1800+ hp roots blown BBC mud racing trucks that are pinned at WOT most of the time for about a minute at a time. They run pure methanol and no cooling system. This is moving a 10k pound truck through mud. So with the load they are seeing and not generating heat issues, your car going straight for less than 10 seconds at a time should be no issue. But if you are worried about it, do as mentioned above and plumb hoses from the block to a remote water pump and circulate water from a reservoir tank. That should be more than sufficient.

 

I ran 100% methanol on a turbo ls1 with no cooling system and no water in the block or heads. I still had to let it warm up for several minutes just to get any heat in the motor and turbo. Part of the reason going to straight meth was to get rid of the cooling system.

 

We cool the head only on a filled block 4G63 that makes 300+hp per hole on meth. We tried no cooling but temps got pretty out of control so we decided to keep it safe and cool just the head. You will also want to invest in a oil heater to keep water from condensation out of the oil, especially if you live in a cooler climate area. The suggestion to use a honda radiator is a good one. They are small cheap and there are TONS of them to choose from.

 

Thanks for the info that sounds very promising and i don't mind running a remote mounted pump with a reservoir tank as i actually have the old fuel cell i can convert and if really needed i guess i could throw some ice in there too but i'm trying to steer clear of hauling lbs and lbs of ice to the track to keep things simple that's why i'm considering this whole alcohol route!

That's great to hear is there any concern though if i left the water in the block and heads but say didn't circulate the fluid at all?

sold my 9 sec Evo 9 RS.

Anyway i appreciate the input especially the oil heater do you have a link or suggestion on what to run?

Something similar to heating pads used for warming nitrous bottles?

The small Honda rads similar to the Koyo rad i ran on my Evo to fit a FF turbo set-up is just a bit smaller than the Afco i have now but i'm looking for something even smaller if it's possible......

 

Look at intercooler "heat exchangers" if you want smaller core. Though the honda cores I saw are much smaller than the rad you have pictured.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Votion-Unive...-/110969168632

 

run both with and without radiators on methanol
tune ups are different with each combo...
plug readings will be different...

iron heads?
alloy heads?

water system ,... you will need way more fuel tank size / volume .... to heat up motor

going to start line is different with each, procedure wise, to keep chamber temp in ideal range

with radiator and water, takes time to get engine temps up, head temps up, and motor cools very fast
you will not need a fan with radiator, water pump only if at all

water / radiator weighs heavier
water extra risk to going under rear tyres.....

 

even with dyo racing,
engine cools down in 1/2 hour

what fuel system u going??
driving it around u will need warm up tune.. ( lean to warm motor, and not milk oil )
fat tune to not over heat , if your driving it around...

 

A sprint car radiator is 20x22 and fairly cheap and had -10 outlets that could be easily routed to the heads. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-SPRINT-CAR-MIDGET-USAC-/301075437687?hash=item46197e9877&vxp=mtr

If you want to go smaller than that a Micro-Sprint radiator would be a good choice
•10" Tall
•17 1/2" Wide
•3" Thick
•Double Pass design allows for exceptional cooling
•Outlet: 1" hose
•Inlet: both 1" hose and -8AN ports
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SALDANA-MICRO-SPRINT-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-DOUBLE-PASS-TRIPLE-X-PMP-XXX-2-ROW-MINI-/291063223021?hash=item43c4b852ed&vxp=mtr

 

Take a look at the wide Chase bay's radiator. It'll cool an ls1 on the street but stay tucked away and hidden. Then you can get the car out on the street once in a while as well.

 

Thanks for the link!

Crashly thank you kindly for the info it sounds like you def have some experience on the subject!

To answer some of your questions:

- Alum alloy heads not iron (ETP 4 bolts)
- 100% Alcohol for fuel
- Fuel system will consist of an Enderle 990 FP, Have not purchased yet but thinking of Billet Atomizer 550 PPH injs, Aeromotive Reg, Thinking of 3 gall fuel cell which may need to be custom made to fit the space left over up front and hopefully that's enough to do the burnout and make a pass

I do understand the differences of running it both ways you explained and the fact that tune up will change accordingly as well as plug readings.

I guess my main concern now is cooling when tuning to keep things consistent as well as be able to accomplish w/o taking all day due to cooling needs.

Once the fuel cell is situated i'd like to make it easy to drain fuel out so if it's needed to have a warm up tune say on gas it could be done and then switched over very quickly to Methanol unless it can be done on the 550's w/o saturating the oil w/ alcohol.

I guess if i sold my Afco rad and Meziere electric WP i could possible come up with some sort of fluid x-change setup to cool the engine down as quickly as i needed.......you have any thoughts on that or is that over-kill?

Appreciate it the mini-sprint is what i was researching as i have a spot about that size to fit it w/o a fan but my main concern there is that it would have to be directly in front of the driver's front tire and i'm trying as much as possible to eliminate any sort of fluids getting under the tires another reason i'd prefer to stay away from an A2W IC set-up with lines running back and forth etc.

Just took a look and unfortunately it's almost the same size as the AFCO i have now so i'd prefer something smaller if at all........from what Crashly and others have stated i think i'm going to try and see how things turn out w/o a rad and go from there but just trying to think a few steps ahead to eliminate issues with the layout/fabrication of the turbo placements etc

 

We run this one in our dry sump tank. Not sure if it, or one similar, would fit in a stock style pan.

 

if u run gas it will ruin plug readings period....
even the slightest amount...

opinions:

have a race tune, ...
for warm up, u can put a line from manifold into cab with off/on tap
open tap to create a vacuum leak, and this will make engine rev up and lean out.... creating more heat to warm up faster
cheap and quick to make.... put 2 in for more / less vacuum leak.

or

map a warm up tune in ecu, and just swop between them...

also,
look for a oil tank warmer from dry sump setup.
these are electrical " electric blankets "
fit to engine sump , under your diaper / nappy and keep oil warm in pits and home , to evaporate meth from engine oil.

this heat helps keep temp in motor in , day before race , between rounds, before rounds , over night on 2 day race meetings , cleaning of engine oil from methanol contaminates , after race day

I dump fuel into motor after finish line to help cool heads
turn the cars around in 45 minutes
no water combo's

( you should be fitting one onto engine to stop leaks / oil / water potentially going onto rear tyres )

 

Once again i do appreicate the help/info!

What i was suggesting was similar to what we did in the past with our cars on Ethanol fuels as they would sit for a while so i'd warm the cars up with old plugs and throw a fresh set in before making a pass to allow us to read them accurately.

I'd much prefer not to have to swap fuels back and forth so with the Holley EFI i'll do as you rec'd and have a warm up tune and a race tune to switch back and forth from and hopefully with the Billet Atomizers or Morans that the oil wll not become saturated with alcohol during warm up/idling around.

I will now look into the electrical blanket style sump warmer but will also consider the electrical coil posted above does anyone out there now if that can fit into an F-body pan?

Car will def have a diaper on it hopefully the 3/4-1" of space between pan and K-member is enough to fit it all as that's as much space as i have.....

 

Tell me what you guys think of this set-up please just sae this on RJ and i contacted the guy and it's still for sale.

I'm thinking i could sell my Meziere WP and Afco rad for about the same price as this.....

http://www.racingjunk.com/Radiators/...ion-Tank-.html

Am i again overthinking this whole cooling system or spending too much cash where it can go to other items???

 

I would have no issues using that on a drag only methanol deal that was towed to and from the lanes.

Hell, I may jump on that deal......

 

Don't you dare! lol jk

I will sell you my stock location Meziere and Afco rad though

The car isn't going to be registered so no real street driving of any sort but i'm a bit concerned if i have to have it on a street for a set-up race but i'm not much of a street racer at all but you never know......

The only other option people have suggested are to run a water tank to circulate fluid after a pass or while tuning on the dyno but i'd hate to keep draining/re-filling or worse yet hauling lbs of ice to the track.....

Last resort would be to run a larger rad in the rear under the car with lines runing front to back.....

Not sure if you saw in my build thread but like suggested before i spoke to Derale and they said their 13700 fluid cooler with -12an fitting would work http://derale.com/products/fluid-coo...kit-6an-detail again not sure if that would be any better than the nice pakcaged deal from RJ

Thanks for all the help guys