Holley EFI vs Factory
11-22-2015, 12:49 PM
#42
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On top of that, the Dominator can have 2 wideband sensors and no need for external controllers. The other benefit with either the HP or the Dominator is that they can use either the Bosch or the better NTK wideband sensors.
You can also do cool stuff like this:
Andrew
You can also do cool stuff like this:
Andrew
11-23-2015, 04:14 AM
#43
To the OP, I've noticed you've asked what all you'll need and no one has given you a direct answer so I'll try to help.
You'll need the HP or Dominator,
I'd recommend going right to the Dominator because on a turbo set up you'll run out of inputs and outputs to take full advantage of running an aftermarket ECU in the first place. You'll end up selling the HP later and waste money.
You'll need an LS1 Main Harness, part# 558-102
If you use a 4L60E/4L80E transmission you'll need a harness for that, part# 558-405
Need a power harness, its not included in the Main harness, part# 558-308
Need a bosch injector harness for stock type injectors part# 558-200. And EV6 harness is also available part# 558-201
You'll need at least one Holley wideband sensor. It has to be their wideband because they are calibrated for the Holley ECUs. Other widebands wont work, I've already tried. The Bosch type sensor Part# 554-101 is recommended for N/A motors, the NTK type sensor Part# 554-100 is recommended for higher temps and E-85 (turbo set ups). The NTK is twice as expensive but worth it because you'll replace your sensors half as often.
If you do choose to use the Dominator and want to use two widebands you'll have to buy a certain auxiliary harness. The LS1 Main harness only comes with one pigtail and wires for one WB. The auxilery harness also comes with extra wires to add more inputs/outputs. Part# 558-401. Also remember to buy a second WB o2 sensor if you choose to do this.
If you want to read/record oil pressure and fuel pressure you will have to buy Holley 100psi sensors. Once again you have to buy those from Holley because the software is already set up to run them. Part# 554-102
For the oil pressure sensor you could place it in the factory location in the back of the block or you could drill and tap above the oil filter. Problem with drilling and taping above the oil filter is that will more than likely be where your turbo oil feed is going to be, plus the Holley harness doesnt reach that far. To put the Holley 100psi sensor in factory location you'll need an adapter to make it fit. I used an Auto Meter part number 2268 for $16 and it works perfect.
LCD screens are optional but worth it in my opinion. There is a 5.7" screen Part# 553-103 and a 7" screen Part# 553-106.
The 5.7" screen allows you to completely control the ECU, and do everything you can do with a laptop without the laptop. It can also display any gauge you can think of, and record/playback datalogs with the press of a button. With this one you can also have other tunes (for example, switching to different fuels) saved into and and switch on the fly. The bad part is the gauges arent as pleasing, harder to see, and not as customizable as the 7" screen.
The 7" screen is purely for gauges, and recording datalogs (Holley calls it the "Digital Dash" for this reason). You cannot make changes in the ECU with this LCD. But, it can completely replace you dashboard gauges, and any other gauges you have mounted. You can customize gauge size, shape, color, and max/min ranges. Background can be customized. You can even set gauges to alert you when out of certain min/max ranges.
I went into such a long explanation of the LCD screens because you have to think about this. They seem expensive, but using the ECU outputs to control the stock gauge cluster are a lot of outputs, and a pain in the *** calibrating everything. Also with the Holley HP its impossible because you'll run out of outputs just running the engine alone. And if you use aftermarket gauges the price of individual gauges will cost more than buying either LCD screen.
You'll need the HP or Dominator,
I'd recommend going right to the Dominator because on a turbo set up you'll run out of inputs and outputs to take full advantage of running an aftermarket ECU in the first place. You'll end up selling the HP later and waste money.
You'll need an LS1 Main Harness, part# 558-102
If you use a 4L60E/4L80E transmission you'll need a harness for that, part# 558-405
Need a power harness, its not included in the Main harness, part# 558-308
Need a bosch injector harness for stock type injectors part# 558-200. And EV6 harness is also available part# 558-201
You'll need at least one Holley wideband sensor. It has to be their wideband because they are calibrated for the Holley ECUs. Other widebands wont work, I've already tried. The Bosch type sensor Part# 554-101 is recommended for N/A motors, the NTK type sensor Part# 554-100 is recommended for higher temps and E-85 (turbo set ups). The NTK is twice as expensive but worth it because you'll replace your sensors half as often.
If you do choose to use the Dominator and want to use two widebands you'll have to buy a certain auxiliary harness. The LS1 Main harness only comes with one pigtail and wires for one WB. The auxilery harness also comes with extra wires to add more inputs/outputs. Part# 558-401. Also remember to buy a second WB o2 sensor if you choose to do this.
If you want to read/record oil pressure and fuel pressure you will have to buy Holley 100psi sensors. Once again you have to buy those from Holley because the software is already set up to run them. Part# 554-102
For the oil pressure sensor you could place it in the factory location in the back of the block or you could drill and tap above the oil filter. Problem with drilling and taping above the oil filter is that will more than likely be where your turbo oil feed is going to be, plus the Holley harness doesnt reach that far. To put the Holley 100psi sensor in factory location you'll need an adapter to make it fit. I used an Auto Meter part number 2268 for $16 and it works perfect.
LCD screens are optional but worth it in my opinion. There is a 5.7" screen Part# 553-103 and a 7" screen Part# 553-106.
The 5.7" screen allows you to completely control the ECU, and do everything you can do with a laptop without the laptop. It can also display any gauge you can think of, and record/playback datalogs with the press of a button. With this one you can also have other tunes (for example, switching to different fuels) saved into and and switch on the fly. The bad part is the gauges arent as pleasing, harder to see, and not as customizable as the 7" screen.
The 7" screen is purely for gauges, and recording datalogs (Holley calls it the "Digital Dash" for this reason). You cannot make changes in the ECU with this LCD. But, it can completely replace you dashboard gauges, and any other gauges you have mounted. You can customize gauge size, shape, color, and max/min ranges. Background can be customized. You can even set gauges to alert you when out of certain min/max ranges.
I went into such a long explanation of the LCD screens because you have to think about this. They seem expensive, but using the ECU outputs to control the stock gauge cluster are a lot of outputs, and a pain in the *** calibrating everything. Also with the Holley HP its impossible because you'll run out of outputs just running the engine alone. And if you use aftermarket gauges the price of individual gauges will cost more than buying either LCD screen.
11-23-2015, 09:20 AM
#44
Going from blow thru to EFI, I struggled big time-slap the carb on from CSU, fire it up, go driving, lol
Going to the Holley HP, I was lost bigtime-i learned I should have bought all Holley sensors, pick them from a drop down, done
Anyway, after months of fighting it, I had a guy remote in and help straighten it out-I love the data log big time, and all kind of features you can add in, prob 60% I will never figure out, lol
There is a saying a poorly tuned carb will run better than a poorly tuned FI unit, it was so true
I pretty much understand how to tune, wide open tuning was so much easier than low speed drivability though-I am on my second car with the Holley, so that tells you I did like it, lol
I have the 3.5 screen that is all my gauges in one screen, un cluttered, love it
Going to the Holley HP, I was lost bigtime-i learned I should have bought all Holley sensors, pick them from a drop down, done
Anyway, after months of fighting it, I had a guy remote in and help straighten it out-I love the data log big time, and all kind of features you can add in, prob 60% I will never figure out, lol
There is a saying a poorly tuned carb will run better than a poorly tuned FI unit, it was so true
I pretty much understand how to tune, wide open tuning was so much easier than low speed drivability though-I am on my second car with the Holley, so that tells you I did like it, lol
I have the 3.5 screen that is all my gauges in one screen, un cluttered, love it
11-23-2015, 02:17 PM
#45
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Thank you so much for the information provided. This has cleared up a lot of my questions. I really can't see going wrong with running the Holley EFI. It will help me out big time when tuning comes into play for this turbo motor of mine. Thanks again guys! I will post up any other questions or information I find helpful that contributes to Holley EFI!
11-23-2015, 02:29 PM
#46
You'll need at least one Holley wideband sensor. It has to be their wideband because they are calibrated for the Holley ECUs. Other widebands wont work, I've already tried. The Bosch type sensor Part# 554-101 is recommended for N/A motors, the NTK type sensor Part# 554-100 is recommended for higher temps and E-85 (turbo set ups). The NTK is twice as expensive but worth it because you'll replace your sensors half as often.
I've been running the HP on a turbo LSX w/E85 and the Bosch sensor about a foot from the turbo in my downpipe for about a year with no issues. I don't know the lifespan of the NTK sensor but so far I'm happy with the Bosch.
11-25-2015, 12:22 AM
#48
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Im running the same combo with a new dominator. I read DO NOT keep in on the gas scale and run e85. The injector pulse width is different. Thats just what I read. Idk if its true. Im running that turbo tune and e85 as well. It fired right up. Havent got to drive it yet.
The main harness comes with a plug for the inputs and outputs but does not come with the harness. At least on the dominator.
Your stock oil pressure sensor will work fine with the main harness.
Spend the money and get the ntk. On the forums Ive seen. The Bosch were junking out, esp on turbo cars. Just what I read.
Go to tickwholesale.com. they are a sponsor here as part of tickperformance.com. Sign up for like 50.00 to be a member. You get a few shirts and a hat. I just got 25% off all holley products. I got
dominator
ls harness
power harness
injector harness
4l80e harness
accessory harness
ntk wideband
3 bar map sensor
100 psi sensor
For 2681.00, delivered to my door.
The main harness comes with a plug for the inputs and outputs but does not come with the harness. At least on the dominator.
Your stock oil pressure sensor will work fine with the main harness.
Spend the money and get the ntk. On the forums Ive seen. The Bosch were junking out, esp on turbo cars. Just what I read.
Go to tickwholesale.com. they are a sponsor here as part of tickperformance.com. Sign up for like 50.00 to be a member. You get a few shirts and a hat. I just got 25% off all holley products. I got
dominator
ls harness
power harness
injector harness
4l80e harness
accessory harness
ntk wideband
3 bar map sensor
100 psi sensor
For 2681.00, delivered to my door.
11-25-2015, 12:29 AM
#49
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Also, when I priced the ms3 ls gold box. Assuming an approx 600 tranny controller for the 4l80e. Then figure running the same o2 and other sensors. I was within 400 of my dominator. Ive wasted more money on parts that wouldn't work, than that. lol Just my thought is all.
11-25-2015, 05:13 AM
#50
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Also, when I priced the ms3 ls gold box. Assuming an approx 600 tranny controller for the 4l80e. Then figure running the same o2 and other sensors. I was within 400 of my dominator. Ive wasted more money on parts that wouldn't work, than that. lol Just my thought is all.
11-25-2015, 08:49 AM
#51
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Im running the same combo with a new dominator. I read DO NOT keep in on the gas scale and run e85. The injector pulse width is different. Thats just what I read. Idk if its true. Im running that turbo tune and e85 as well. It fired right up. Havent got to drive it yet.
The main harness comes with a plug for the inputs and outputs but does not come with the harness. At least on the dominator.
Your stock oil pressure sensor will work fine with the main harness.
Spend the money and get the ntk. On the forums Ive seen. The Bosch were junking out, esp on turbo cars. Just what I read.
For 2681.00, delivered to my door.
The main harness comes with a plug for the inputs and outputs but does not come with the harness. At least on the dominator.
Your stock oil pressure sensor will work fine with the main harness.
Spend the money and get the ntk. On the forums Ive seen. The Bosch were junking out, esp on turbo cars. Just what I read.
For 2681.00, delivered to my door.
11-25-2015, 10:14 AM
#53
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I'm by no means an expert but I was just reading the other night that you can use any windows 7 or 8 (but not 8rt) tablet WITH a usb port. So that'd be a big N.O. to the ipad. Looks like you need a USB port and holley OS apparently only runs on windows(?).
You could certainly use a cheap-o windows tablet to do achieve the gauge/stereo set up which i think would be cool. You would still have to have a head unit somewhere to drive the speakers though, a tablet would just be your interface... a really cool interface.
You could certainly use a cheap-o windows tablet to do achieve the gauge/stereo set up which i think would be cool. You would still have to have a head unit somewhere to drive the speakers though, a tablet would just be your interface... a really cool interface.
11-25-2015, 10:59 AM
#54
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Ya. The micro squirt is cheaper. When i asked Denmah and EFI solutions about the tranny controller being built in. I was told they are testing it. That was for a long time. This is my first fuel injected car, period. I was pretty intimidated by the computer system. For the little difference in cost, esp when you figure I know Ive got 15000 in my build. The motor sat dry, in the car for 3 years. I dumped oil in it, loaded the tune, hit the key, and it fired up. I couldnt be happier.
Absolutely. It wont be even close to the road until spring though. New rearend swap and get the turbo done are next on the list.
Im a member, so if anyone wants to pm me. I will get you the exact pricelist. Just let me know the part numbers.
FYI as well. With the accessory harnesses. I found a guy on the holley forum that gave out all the plug end part numbers. Its 125 on holleys site with wires. I got it for 7.00 with no wires. lol
I am using my windows 8 tablet for the gauges. You can do anything on the tablet that you can do on the laptop. IT HAS TO BE WINDOWS BASED. I thought about doing the same thing through the ear jack. Or connect it from the tablet to the aux on the stereo.
One thing about the tablet as gauges though is that conveniently, unlike their gauge LCD screen for 700, you CAN NOT make the gauge page full screen. So it can be a bit harder to see. Check out deals on black friday. Its a great option. I chose to tune with a laptop. There is only 1 micro usb port on the dominator. You import the tune from the Holley to the tablet so they all have the files. I can tune from the tablet of course as well.
Holley vs ms is like windows to linux. Holley will nickle and dime you a bunch. The prices are quite higher than I expected. Esp when it has "made in china" sticker on it. lol They will be behind on some features people want that the MS can do already, because its open source. If someone wants to write a code for it, they can and send it out to everyone and a way they go. example, Ethanol content adjustment for us E85 guys. Denmah put in the gauge. The computer compensates when the ethanol content is lower than it should be. At the same time though. Holley is going to d&d the hell out of everything before it comes out. Usually taking alot longer of course but with good results. They do have great customer service from everyone that I have ever talked to.
Bottom line.Its all personal preference and how much do you want to spend.
Absolutely. It wont be even close to the road until spring though. New rearend swap and get the turbo done are next on the list.
Im a member, so if anyone wants to pm me. I will get you the exact pricelist. Just let me know the part numbers.
FYI as well. With the accessory harnesses. I found a guy on the holley forum that gave out all the plug end part numbers. Its 125 on holleys site with wires. I got it for 7.00 with no wires. lol
I am using my windows 8 tablet for the gauges. You can do anything on the tablet that you can do on the laptop. IT HAS TO BE WINDOWS BASED. I thought about doing the same thing through the ear jack. Or connect it from the tablet to the aux on the stereo.
One thing about the tablet as gauges though is that conveniently, unlike their gauge LCD screen for 700, you CAN NOT make the gauge page full screen. So it can be a bit harder to see. Check out deals on black friday. Its a great option. I chose to tune with a laptop. There is only 1 micro usb port on the dominator. You import the tune from the Holley to the tablet so they all have the files. I can tune from the tablet of course as well.
Holley vs ms is like windows to linux. Holley will nickle and dime you a bunch. The prices are quite higher than I expected. Esp when it has "made in china" sticker on it. lol They will be behind on some features people want that the MS can do already, because its open source. If someone wants to write a code for it, they can and send it out to everyone and a way they go. example, Ethanol content adjustment for us E85 guys. Denmah put in the gauge. The computer compensates when the ethanol content is lower than it should be. At the same time though. Holley is going to d&d the hell out of everything before it comes out. Usually taking alot longer of course but with good results. They do have great customer service from everyone that I have ever talked to.
Bottom line.Its all personal preference and how much do you want to spend.
11-26-2015, 09:07 PM
#59
I just spoke with Holley on the phone. I couldn't find the Dominator setup on there website so the Holley rep gave me part # 550-608 for the Terminator setup. He advised that there is a basic tune on file already for a turbo LS and I would only have to change a few perimeters to get the tune close. I'm really thinking about going with this setup.
11-27-2015, 10:20 AM
#60
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He was right on the terminator part at least. Then judging by the amounts of sensors. Im assuming twin waste gates? There is a terminator hp and a terminator dominator. It is the exact same hardware. The terminator is just dumbed way down. Dif software. Its for people that want to plug it in and go. Use a little hand held controller. Thats how I told by the holley rep I talked to and by what I seen on them.
You will spend way more than you expect! I keep saying it. I am very annoyed how they nickle and dime you. Except its like 100.00 at a time. lol
100 psi sensor that I see Denmah buy for 20.00 is 100 a pop. lol But once its done and over. Its not a big deal. Cant always be about money.
Like the map sensor. I got the holley map and the LS Main Harness. Also bought the ls to map adapter harness from them. Go to plug it in. Its not for their map seonsors. Its for a stock ls3 style. They dont make one for theirs. You have to splice it. lol
The hp is so limited by the amount of I/Os. That sounds legit on the price if going directly through holley.
You seen what I got for 2600. Through holley it was obviously way higher.
check out tickwholesale.com. i checked yesterday. they are still having the holley sale. plus today is black friday. they have half off on membership as well, I believe.
You will spend way more than you expect! I keep saying it. I am very annoyed how they nickle and dime you. Except its like 100.00 at a time. lol
100 psi sensor that I see Denmah buy for 20.00 is 100 a pop. lol But once its done and over. Its not a big deal. Cant always be about money.
Like the map sensor. I got the holley map and the LS Main Harness. Also bought the ls to map adapter harness from them. Go to plug it in. Its not for their map seonsors. Its for a stock ls3 style. They dont make one for theirs. You have to splice it. lol
The hp is so limited by the amount of I/Os. That sounds legit on the price if going directly through holley.
You seen what I got for 2600. Through holley it was obviously way higher.
check out tickwholesale.com. i checked yesterday. they are still having the holley sale. plus today is black friday. they have half off on membership as well, I believe.