Holley EFI vs Factory
11-27-2015, 10:49 AM
#61
Unless your going to run an OD trans, you can get away with the HP...I am at least. I'm using 3 of the 4 outputs (elec fan and water/meth). I shared the water/meth out put with the 2nd fuel pump so they both come on at 5psi - that frees up one output. If necess, you can get a separate switch for the elec fan and free up another. just depends on what your looking to do. The Dommy ECU is like another 800.00 on top of the HP, then you need all the extra harnesses. So its like an extra 1000.00+ to go Dommy.
Summit/Holley has the HP ls1/2 kits for $1550.00. That is enough to get an engine running right there - great deal. Add 2 pressure sensors and map sensor if all needed and your still under 2000.00 and can do what most of us need.
Summit/Holley has the HP ls1/2 kits for $1550.00. That is enough to get an engine running right there - great deal. Add 2 pressure sensors and map sensor if all needed and your still under 2000.00 and can do what most of us need.
11-27-2015, 11:58 AM
#62
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I completely agree. That was the main factor in me going with the dominator. If i wouldnt have had the 4l80e. It would be a hard decision between the MS and Holley. You can def keep the inputs and out puts to a min. You just have to then purchase the boost control and what have you, separate. It is extremely nice though to have all the I/O's. Of course dont forget to buy the harness and wires. lol
Having everything go through one system is amazingly nice though. You can datalog everything you could possibly want to know. You can change everything from shift points,boost,2 step, to what temp the fan comes on, etc... All on one screen.
Having everything go through one system is amazingly nice though. You can datalog everything you could possibly want to know. You can change everything from shift points,boost,2 step, to what temp the fan comes on, etc... All on one screen.
11-27-2015, 05:02 PM
#63
He was right on the terminator part at least. Then judging by the amounts of sensors. Im assuming twin waste gates? There is a terminator hp and a terminator dominator. It is the exact same hardware. The terminator is just dumbed way down. Dif software. Its for people that want to plug it in and go. Use a little hand held controller. Thats how I told by the holley rep I talked to and by what I seen on them.
You will spend way more than you expect! I keep saying it. I am very annoyed how they nickle and dime you. Except its like 100.00 at a time. lol
100 psi sensor that I see Denmah buy for 20.00 is 100 a pop. lol But once its done and over. Its not a big deal. Cant always be about money.
Like the map sensor. I got the holley map and the LS Main Harness. Also bought the ls to map adapter harness from them. Go to plug it in. Its not for their map seonsors. Its for a stock ls3 style. They dont make one for theirs. You have to splice it. lol
The hp is so limited by the amount of I/Os. That sounds legit on the price if going directly through holley.
You seen what I got for 2600. Through holley it was obviously way higher.
check out tickwholesale.com. i checked yesterday. they are still having the holley sale. plus today is black friday. they have half off on membership as well, I believe.
You will spend way more than you expect! I keep saying it. I am very annoyed how they nickle and dime you. Except its like 100.00 at a time. lol
100 psi sensor that I see Denmah buy for 20.00 is 100 a pop. lol But once its done and over. Its not a big deal. Cant always be about money.
Like the map sensor. I got the holley map and the LS Main Harness. Also bought the ls to map adapter harness from them. Go to plug it in. Its not for their map seonsors. Its for a stock ls3 style. They dont make one for theirs. You have to splice it. lol
The hp is so limited by the amount of I/Os. That sounds legit on the price if going directly through holley.
You seen what I got for 2600. Through holley it was obviously way higher.
check out tickwholesale.com. i checked yesterday. they are still having the holley sale. plus today is black friday. they have half off on membership as well, I believe.
11-28-2015, 12:39 PM
#64
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Here is the 24 tooth system:
https://holley.com/products/ls_power.../parts/550-602
The 58 tooth system is the same price.
The Dominator is sold ala carte because it is almost impossible to predict what individuals want to do with the systems. Some want trans control, some want DBW, some run nitrous, some boost, etc...etc...etc...
Andrew
11-28-2015, 01:43 PM
#65
I don't know why you say this. The LS specific HP systems come with everything that is needed for about $1550...
Here is the 24 tooth system:
https://holley.com/products/ls_power.../parts/550-602
The 58 tooth system is the same price.
The Dominator is sold ala carte because it is almost impossible to predict what individuals want to do with the systems. Some want trans control, some want DBW, some run nitrous, some boost, etc...etc...etc...
Andrew
Here is the 24 tooth system:
https://holley.com/products/ls_power.../parts/550-602
The 58 tooth system is the same price.
The Dominator is sold ala carte because it is almost impossible to predict what individuals want to do with the systems. Some want trans control, some want DBW, some run nitrous, some boost, etc...etc...etc...
Andrew
Same with the map sensor. Way more expensive than basically every other similar sensor.
I just feel like with the dominator they could have a little more specific harnesses and not rape the people buying the extra parts.
Also the dominator does flex fuel setups but I don't believe it will combine that with boost control to change the tune on the fly.
11-28-2015, 02:03 PM
#66
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I say that because of the options and their prices. Of course everyone wants to see oil pressure so that should be built in. But then you have to buy an expensive sending unit and a special adapter harness if you are running it in an Fbody because of the cowl clearance.
Same with the map sensor. Way more expensive than basically every other similar sensor.
I just feel like with the dominator they could have a little more specific harnesses and not rape the people buying the extra parts.
Also the dominator does flex fuel setups but I don't believe it will combine that with boost control to change the tune on the fly.
Same with the map sensor. Way more expensive than basically every other similar sensor.
I just feel like with the dominator they could have a little more specific harnesses and not rape the people buying the extra parts.
Also the dominator does flex fuel setups but I don't believe it will combine that with boost control to change the tune on the fly.
Again, with as many combinations that are floating around out there, it is hard to predict what people have.
The Dominator does have specific harnesses. There is the power harness (same as HP). There is the main harness (same as HP, Gen III or Gen IV specific). From there you add an injector harness (this is good because there are different styles of injector plugs). The items listed above will get you started and from there you can add various other things as needed (like trans, DBW, etc....).
If you want to make your own harnesses Holley has published all of the connector types that are used on the HP and the Dominator. I can tell you from experience that unless you know exactly what you are doing, building your own can get very expensive.
Andrew
11-28-2015, 04:13 PM
#67
I don't mean to be a dick, but you're not making sense. I just showed you that the HP system comes complete with everything you need. As for the oil pressure sensor, you can use a stock oil pressure sensor, the same goes for the MAP (every sensor is configurable so you can use any sensor you like). I got the Gen IV harness and was able to use my stock oil pressure sensor and a LS3 MAP (just moved pins around).
Again, with as many combinations that are floating around out there, it is hard to predict what people have.
The Dominator does have specific harnesses. There is the power harness (same as HP). There is the main harness (same as HP, Gen III or Gen IV specific). From there you add an injector harness (this is good because there are different styles of injector plugs). The items listed above will get you started and from there you can add various other things as needed (like trans, DBW, etc....).
If you want to make your own harnesses Holley has published all of the connector types that are used on the HP and the Dominator. I can tell you from experience that unless you know exactly what you are doing, building your own can get very expensive.
Andrew
Again, with as many combinations that are floating around out there, it is hard to predict what people have.
The Dominator does have specific harnesses. There is the power harness (same as HP). There is the main harness (same as HP, Gen III or Gen IV specific). From there you add an injector harness (this is good because there are different styles of injector plugs). The items listed above will get you started and from there you can add various other things as needed (like trans, DBW, etc....).
If you want to make your own harnesses Holley has published all of the connector types that are used on the HP and the Dominator. I can tell you from experience that unless you know exactly what you are doing, building your own can get very expensive.
Andrew
Everything I have read about the Holley stuff is that you have to run their sensors. Until you posted that I didn't know that stock ones could be reused which really confused me.
11-28-2015, 04:25 PM
#68
TECH Senior Member
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No worries man I was on my phone and the mobile version sucks for replying lol. I was mainly talking about a Dominator instead of the HP because (and I might be wrong on this as well) but I don't feel the HP has enough inputs and outputs for a boosted LS setup even without an electronic auto.
Everything I have read about the Holley stuff is that you have to run their sensors. Until you posted that I didn't know that stock ones could be reused which really confused me.
Everything I have read about the Holley stuff is that you have to run their sensors. Until you posted that I didn't know that stock ones could be reused which really confused me.
Download the software (it's free) and see for yourself regarding the sensors. There is a Sensor ICF (Individual Configuration File? I forget what it stands for) that allows you to use any sensor you can imagine as long as you know the output curve.
I just get frustrated when people form opinions based on random internet posts from people that have never even seen a product in person.
Andrew
11-28-2015, 04:31 PM
#69
The Dominator is definitely better suited for any sort of forced induction, be it boost or nitrous. Also remember this, the Dominator has all of the boost and nitrous controllers already built in, so external "black boxes" are not needed. For boosted applications you can control both boost and water/meth injection, all within the Holley software.
Download the software (it's free) and see for yourself regarding the sensors. There is a Sensor ICF (Individual Configuration File? I forget what it stands for) that allows you to use any sensor you can imagine as long as you know the output curve.
I just get frustrated when people form opinions based on random internet posts from people that have never even seen a product in person.
Andrew
Download the software (it's free) and see for yourself regarding the sensors. There is a Sensor ICF (Individual Configuration File? I forget what it stands for) that allows you to use any sensor you can imagine as long as you know the output curve.
I just get frustrated when people form opinions based on random internet posts from people that have never even seen a product in person.
Andrew
I really like the interface of the Holley setup better though. It seems more finished than TunerStudio does.
11-28-2015, 07:47 PM
#70
With the HP and harness kit you will get the engine fired-up and running. If you want to log fuel and oil pressures, you need to buy the pressure sensors at 100.00/ea. If you want to run boost control, you need to buy another pressure sensor and a couple of solenoids at ~100.00/ea again.
Keep in mind though that the hp has only 4 inputs and 4 outputs. If you have a fan(s) you will use one of the outputs, maybe 2. Boost control uses another 2 of the outputs so after that your out of outputs. At that point you need to go dominator.
Keep in mind though that the hp has only 4 inputs and 4 outputs. If you have a fan(s) you will use one of the outputs, maybe 2. Boost control uses another 2 of the outputs so after that your out of outputs. At that point you need to go dominator.
11-28-2015, 11:34 PM
#71
And as for Holley nickle and diming people, I'm in between. I do agree that its horrible, but at the same time people could save a ton of money by not being lazy. I'll tell you right now that I'm the lazy kind and I pay for it. You can make any sensor work, you dont absolutely need theirs, by creating custom tables for sensors. Problem is good luck finding all the offsets, voltages, and all that other stuff you need to create the custom tables. And like someone mentioned before, in their forums they have released where to buy the pigtails, crimps, wires, and all that. But I just buy all of it, aint got time for that.
11-29-2015, 09:56 PM
#72
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For the Dominator and the other features like boost control, traction control, etc..Its not the fact of all the things I have to buy ala carte. Its the price of the add ons. Nearly 400.00 for a main harness? Or 100.00 per sensor. When to run their boost control. I need 2 more solenoids and a min of I believe 3 sensors. The accessory plug and wires for 125.00 is way higher than expected. I guess its just I feel the prices are quite a bit higher than I would have expected. That is why when I found the prices on Tick. It changed everything. I saved almost 700.00 by getting it through them, compared to the exact same prices from Holleys website. Then at 75.00 a sensor. I dont feel so bad. haha
I put in my reply on the first page. lol Yes. You can use the stock sensors. Im using the stock oil pressure sensor, coolent, IAT, ect... I got the sensor for my Magnafuel RPR. I wanted to make sure it is dead nuts, so I got the Holley sensor. Thats the only one needed if I wasn't using their boost control.
And as for Holley nickle and diming people, I'm in between. I do agree that its horrible, but at the same time people could save a ton of money by not being lazy. I'll tell you right now that I'm the lazy kind and I pay for it. You can make any sensor work, you dont absolutely need theirs, by creating custom tables for sensors. Problem is good luck finding all the offsets, voltages, and all that other stuff you need to create the custom tables. And like someone mentioned before, in their forums they have released where to buy the pigtails, crimps, wires, and all that. But I just buy all of it, aint got time for that.
I got the accessory plug for like 7.00 from the part numbers on their forum. Which is really cool they would allow that. Obviously not buying it through them.
Thats why I'm not so upset with Holley at their prices. If I got off my *** and did it myself. I could have saved prob 500 on the pre made harnesses... but Dam it was nice to lay it out, plug it in. Hit the key. Listen to her talk. haha
11-30-2015, 10:54 AM
#75
I put it in post 70. If you talk to holley their boost control is close to $400 but it's the same ****. I have one Mac valve controlling two gates, and an eBay fuel pressure sensor. The only sensor I didn't cheap out on which I should have is the 3 bar map
11-30-2015, 11:03 AM
#76
Its all covered in the Holley manual. You can run the Holley boost control with one solenoid and reference the MAP sensor for boost, same as you can run an eboost, AEM, etc.. its just not as fancy as the multi solenoid and dome sensor setup. On my setup the single solenoid works fine, I run 18 PSI wastegate spring and use the controller for more then that.
11-30-2015, 11:39 AM
#77
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Its all covered in the Holley manual. You can run the Holley boost control with one solenoid and reference the MAP sensor for boost, same as you can run an eboost, AEM, etc.. its just not as fancy as the multi solenoid and dome sensor setup. On my setup the single solenoid works fine, I run 18 PSI wastegate spring and use the controller for more then that.
Are either of you running Co2?