MS Boxes?
MS Boxes? I am really looking at doing one of the aftermarket EFI systems and it seems the big name ones can get to a price point where I'm not so interested. I have done a lot of research and follow along on the Denmah journeys and really would like to know which of the MS boxes would be the best choice? I am running a 5.3 twin turbo and want simplicity, plug and play for the most part. I am hoping someone can explain to me in simple terms what the best one would be and so on. I am looking at the MS3 Gold and the MS Pro and would really appreciate input.
if you are running a non electronic trans don't overlook the microsquirt . it has a few less bells and whistles but if simple and effective is what you want and $800 plug and play from efisourse . they work great . I run one in my nova and also built a turbo lq4 Silverado in my brothers 2003 Silverado on e85. in 2 years running mine I haven't found any reason to go to a more advanced efi system .
I have the TCI TCU for the trans even with running the stock ECM, I like being able to adjust that without going in and flashing threw the ecm. I have read that the micro doesn't support the iac or pwm like the gold box. I have also read completely separate opinions that it is a little rougher on idle with the micro not a big deal. to much back and forth. I like the gold for the trans option as I have seen the Denmah bump box, Trans brake and all that wrapped into one box. So I'm guessing it comes down to features. Thank you for the reply and useful info
Micro will do an IAC if you dont want to use the extra outputs for 2step etc. They make a box/adapter for around $60.
I believe EFIsource is still working on an all in one gold box with trans control. I know they were testing it back on june or something.
Jay
I believe EFIsource is still working on an all in one gold box with trans control. I know they were testing it back on june or something.
Jay
I saw that in one of the Denman videos from 2013. That would be really cool. I would like to keep the out puts to use in the future for additional, 2 step, bump, and trans brake so I am going to go Gold Box and see how we like that. Looks sweet in all the videos when they show the tuner studio dash. Ordered one tonight so hoping mid week to get it.
Goldbox looks like a GREAT choice. I think it is comparable to the Holley Dominator.
A guy I know of on another forum is changing to the Gold Box now I think. He had the micro before. Here is his Blazer.
A guy I know of on another forum is changing to the Gold Box now I think. He had the micro before. Here is his Blazer.
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I use a Ms3, with ms3x option running full sequential and coil on plug.. 5.3 twin turbo and im pretty happy with it so far. There is a learning curve with some of the wiring and setup but all in all the features are working out really nice.
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Teching In
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
I am really looking at doing one of the aftermarket EFI systems and it seems the big name ones can get to a price point where I'm not so interested. I have done a lot of research and follow along on the Denmah journeys and really would like to know which of the MS boxes would be the best choice? I am running a 5.3 twin turbo and want simplicity, plug and play for the most part. I am hoping someone can explain to me in simple terms what the best one would be and so on. I am looking at the MS3 Gold and the MS Pro and would really appreciate input.
when you get that micro working you will like it. I don't know whats up with your microsquirt but I have used it a couple times and love it .
I couldn't be happier with any efi system.
I couldn't be happier with any efi system.
I would not recommend the microsquirt to anyone unless you have a lot of time on your hands and are a expert with computers and electronics.my buddy has a holley system and it is great and when you add up all the wasted time I have spent on ms it is was a bad mistake .you get what you pay for
A good friend of mine bought the first Holley Analog 4D EFI system on the market in 1994... He bought it new but since then has moved to Accel DFI but the Holley setup is really awesome, would you like to buy it?
It only has a few little screws on one end to do all the tuning, no computer skills are required.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 182
Likes: 3
From: Portland OR
There is no plug and play with a roll your own EFI.
You either plunk down your childs college fund and be chained to a tuner and maybe limited by proprietary hardware and top secret software.
Or you build your own that you can make do damn near anything and twiddle any setting even make your own settings. And if you don't like the code, you can modify it. You won't find a better support group than what is available for MS.
One of the keys to MS is to purchase the right system and not try to make some lame redundant hardware work with it. As mentioned above a MS3 + 3X will do full sequential ignition and spark on an 8 cyl. It also will do logging on the included memory chip slot (and much more).
An MS2 will do wasted spark and batch fire injection on an 8 cyinder and still have room for boost control or nitrous control and launch control. Logging has to be done externally on an MS2.
I prefer the v3.0 main board so I can easily custom tailor the board to the install. The v3.57 board is surface mount components and not as versatile (very little proto space).
Please! Don't purchase a MicroSquirt for anything but the most basic install.
You either plunk down your childs college fund and be chained to a tuner and maybe limited by proprietary hardware and top secret software.
Or you build your own that you can make do damn near anything and twiddle any setting even make your own settings. And if you don't like the code, you can modify it. You won't find a better support group than what is available for MS.
One of the keys to MS is to purchase the right system and not try to make some lame redundant hardware work with it. As mentioned above a MS3 + 3X will do full sequential ignition and spark on an 8 cyl. It also will do logging on the included memory chip slot (and much more).
An MS2 will do wasted spark and batch fire injection on an 8 cyinder and still have room for boost control or nitrous control and launch control. Logging has to be done externally on an MS2.
I prefer the v3.0 main board so I can easily custom tailor the board to the install. The v3.57 board is surface mount components and not as versatile (very little proto space).
Please! Don't purchase a MicroSquirt for anything but the most basic install.
Last edited by RixTrix; Nov 30, 2015 at 08:38 AM.
I ordered the MS3 Gold box after speaking with a Holley rep and his recommendation for the setup is the Dominator ECU $1700+, main harness, 24x harness, input harness, output harness, 2 wideband specific to their system, 4 boost solenoids, 2 dome pressure sensors can not remember if there was anything else but grand total wa a little over $3000. I believe and correct me if I'm wrong but the Gold box has all of these features plus traction control capabilities, bump box, 2 step and some other features built in that would require some extra external pieces and comes with a direct plug in harness for the LS DBC?
So far I have found two things that the gold box can not do:
1. It will not shift my 4l80e automatically. (I knew this when I bought it, but was hoping an upgrade would be available by now…. )
2. It will apparently not accept the VR type VSS output shaft signal from my 4l80e without a separate $40.00 VR Signal conditioner from a guy in Canada. I wish the PT4 wire would work without taking the box apart, but it looks like in order to get boost vs speed I am going to have to do it...
I bought it with the complete harness, plugged everything in, hit the key and...it didn't start…because I didn't turn on the fuel pump... It did start on the second try, but didn't run very well until I had spent at least 5 hours messing around with it. After about 20 hours it still doesn't run perfectly, but that is not an ECU or harness problem, it is the limitations of the tuner (me). I am trying to be careful (5 psi springs in the gates, cold plugs, low timing, low rpm limit…etc) and it is slowly getting better.
I think the msextra forum is excellent, they all really want to help others sort out problems, even total beginners (like me).
I think programable EFI is not for everyone. I suspect that people watch a video or two on youtube, and get the idea that it will be "plug everything in and go make 700 whp with a $200 engine" but they don't notice that the guys making big power with a jy LQ4 are very sharp at tuning, and also blew up at least a dozen engines figuring out how to make it work.
1. It will not shift my 4l80e automatically. (I knew this when I bought it, but was hoping an upgrade would be available by now…. )
2. It will apparently not accept the VR type VSS output shaft signal from my 4l80e without a separate $40.00 VR Signal conditioner from a guy in Canada. I wish the PT4 wire would work without taking the box apart, but it looks like in order to get boost vs speed I am going to have to do it...
I bought it with the complete harness, plugged everything in, hit the key and...it didn't start…because I didn't turn on the fuel pump... It did start on the second try, but didn't run very well until I had spent at least 5 hours messing around with it. After about 20 hours it still doesn't run perfectly, but that is not an ECU or harness problem, it is the limitations of the tuner (me). I am trying to be careful (5 psi springs in the gates, cold plugs, low timing, low rpm limit…etc) and it is slowly getting better.
I think the msextra forum is excellent, they all really want to help others sort out problems, even total beginners (like me).
I think programable EFI is not for everyone. I suspect that people watch a video or two on youtube, and get the idea that it will be "plug everything in and go make 700 whp with a $200 engine" but they don't notice that the guys making big power with a jy LQ4 are very sharp at tuning, and also blew up at least a dozen engines figuring out how to make it work.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 182
Likes: 3
From: Portland OR
You have to have a feel for what an engine wants.
And you have to have the aptitude to wrap your head around what is happening with the EFI.
A ton of experience doesn't hurt.....
You also have to have a compatible hardware package that interfaces well with the ECM, not just what you had laying around or what was cheap and easy.
There is some real crap out there for ECM's as well, if your hands are tied and you are painted into a corner the best tuner in the world will be stopped cold.
And you have to have the aptitude to wrap your head around what is happening with the EFI.
A ton of experience doesn't hurt.....
You also have to have a compatible hardware package that interfaces well with the ECM, not just what you had laying around or what was cheap and easy.
There is some real crap out there for ECM's as well, if your hands are tied and you are painted into a corner the best tuner in the world will be stopped cold.
Whats the deal with the VR signal coditioner? I can likely write some Arduino code to change the sine wave to a nice square wave if that's the issue. Arduino boards are less than $5.
Last edited by aknovaman; Dec 1, 2015 at 03:04 PM.