The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Yeah, Procharger has definitely soured a lot of people with their lack of F1-X support specifically.

Detoxx03

iTrader: (14)

When and if it needs it.

roastin240

iTrader: (13)

This is correct. I have heard many stories where they wouldnt honor warranties. I have heard this happening with turbo manufacturers as well, but 2 things:

1. Heard more stories about this happening with Procharger than all turbo companies combined
2. In the event you do get screwed, your out alot more money to replace the procharger head unit than your typical 800whp street turbo.

Blown06

iTrader: (32)

I agree with the bashing on the f1x issues and prochargers support........as long as everyone is telling the exact truth. Which I do believe is not the case. The majority of the guys that are really breaking a lot of prochargers are beating the **** out of them with a direct drive off the crankshaft and spinning them way beyond max speed.

If these blowers are kept at or under max speed, I'd be willing to bet you'd see a lot less failures.

I'm not sure what procharger's exact warranty guidelines are, but I believe once you take the serpentine belt off.......that all goes out the window.

I'm just posting to try to help keep things in perspective.......there have been plenty of turbo failures in the past......that have been forgotten about also.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

I think that's a very accurate assessment. Part of the problem is people push blowers faster and faster till they don't make anymore power, and with the F1-X, that pushes the speeds above the safe limit, but people do it for more power.

Blown06

iTrader: (32)

Procharger has really backed themselves into a corner with the f1x. The impeller/volute combo can flow a ton of air, but at speeds way beyond the std. F series transmission. So, on one hand they are telling people to obey the stated max speed, but on the other, they are giving a hp rating that requires more than stated max speed.

What really threw a bone in this is the f1x-12. Similar volute/impeller technology, however it is now attached to the f3 transmission. This blower makes insane power and is very reliable........however because it is the larger transmission, it will not bolt in the same place as an f1x.......and then once the true hp potential of this blower was seen, it was immediately banned from all but the "outlaw" types of classes. This then created a new problem in that it doesn't work as good as the larger f3 blowers which are needed to be competitive in the "outlaw" classes. If your gonna hang a -12 off of it, why not just move to the -121 or larger?

This really only touches the surface of the whole story. To really get a grasp of what is going on with these newer blowers you have to go back to the f1x introduction into x275.....where it was quickly banned and deemed useless. Times have changed a bit since then.........but you get my point.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

It makes absolute sense. Let's be honest, those people who are racing with a blower, keep pushing the speed of the blower till there are diminishing returns. So is max rpm is 75k, but it's still making power at 80k, well, let's see what 85k makes... and it's still making more power, so they try 90k.... before you know it, it grenades and now you're stuck with a very expensive paperweight because Procharger isn't stupid, they know you pushed it harder and harder.

But isn't this the norm for the performance industry? Push it till it breaks, fix it, then push harder till something else breaks?


I've seen some F1-X setups make north of 1100rwhp, and still being spun at the safe limit. That's pretty impressive to me. Can a turbo make more, sure, but it's a compromise.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Nothing beats the combination of power and tidy packaging of the Whipple type setups:

CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

$580 in eBay turbos, I'm pretty satisfied.

Blown06

iTrader: (32)

Except prochargers and turbos............lol

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

They make power but, they are far from tidy. The PD blowers go right in place of the intake. Sooooo much cleaner and more compact. I jjust loved the COPOs at Indy. Mid 8s @ 3400# with the simplest of setups.

sbcgenII

iTrader: (1)

Not that impressive for a $30k motor in a badass car.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Moneywise the big Whipples are not cheap. The Magnusson Heartbeat blower kits are not too bad considering the completeness and performance.

scottywheels

I broke an F1-C and an F1X but did a Garrett 88mm set up and the car runs in the 4's at 3340 lbs and x275 legal.... nuff said

ska4life07

iTrader: (2)

Turbo FTW. All you Supercharger guys can SUCK IT!

josh4ku

iTrader: (10)

If you want to retain a/c, don't want a bumper exit, and want more than 800-900 hp, or don't want to be limited to a 327-364 cubic inch motor,then there isn't much choice than to go supercharged. 3" down pipe is about all that is available through the k member in a BOLT ON kit. if your a good fabricater bigger can probably be done. But it's dang tight.

I built a a/c retaining turbo 5.3 and liked it but going pro charged this time with more cubes. the turbo 5.3 with a/c running got HOT very easy. Hoping the procharged setup creates a lot less heat.

Also those who say you can't adjust boost with a Procharger are wrong. You can waste gate a Procharger setup just as easy.

Blown06

iTrader: (32)

Yes you can, but it is not smart. Puts a ton of load on the blower when the gate is open, usually resulting in premature failure. It's probably fine if you are gonna pulley for 15 psi and gate it down to 10-12, but anymore than that just puts a tremendous load on the blower, not to mention creating an unbelievable amount drag on the motor. Anytime they free flow into open air, the "horsepower needed to drive the blower" sky rockets. This can also lead to belt issues. Once you slip a belt, it tends to only get worse and worse. Because of the increased power needed to turn the blower into free air, you are more likely to have belt slip issues that just get worse with time.

The two best options for regulating power/boost on a procharged deal are either having 2 or more pulley/belt setups you can swap or limiting rpm when not racing. Most people get their panties all bunched up when you tell them to have more than one belt/pulley combo "cause it is a pain in the *** to swap". My reply to that argument is "how often do you want/need high boost? If you go to the track a few times a year, it's not that big of a deal to just swap pulleys/belts.

gsteele

Turbochargers are superchargers. Off of the ProCharger web site:"A subset of superchargers known as turbochargers are “exhaust gas driven superchargers”..." Thanks to the op for starting a thread that would allow me to make that point. Even though the title Supercharger vs Turbo is a little confusing.

alocker

iTrader: (10)

Needing more HP to drive a centri free flow does not make sense to me. Can you explain?

Exidous

iTrader: (11)

How sad the world is when it's necessary to congratulate people on the proper usage of your/you're and they're/their/there. It does make me a little happier when I see it used properly but it's still depressing to think about.

As to the OP, I'll go with packaging. For my RX-7 the only option to maintain all accessories is a slightly custom vette procharger setup. No PD will EVER fit under the stock hood and turbo's are heavy plus complicated with plumbing. A turbo is certainly more efficient but I'd have to go with the centri for my specific application.

Before GNX7 jumps on me there are turbo rx7 guys(beast/tickaman) with full accessories but it's very heavy and requires a LOT of modding. Keeping everything cool is a nightmare too due to space and frontal area.

If all three setups could fit and money was no object it would come down to purpose. At the end of the day I'd say turbo's are best all round. At the strip or at the track they are more efficient and will never throw a belt if properly made of course.

Ex

Manuals r better just cuz.