Supercharger vs Turbo.... OFFICIAL ARGUMENT THREAD.
11-03-2016, 09:09 AM
#521
I don't think anyone is arguing at all about which is the more efficient power adder.
But when it comes to making a decision for which path to chose to make 500, 600, or even 900rwhp, more than just efficiency comes into play. Things like ease of install matters to people, because not everyone is a fabricator and can modify their radiator support, or custom weld headers/flanges. Some people are intimidated by all of the potential issues with turbos such as proper oil flow to/from the turbo, proper cam/head/exhaust selection. Even packaging is a concern.
So my motor made 860 at 16psi with the blower... no doubt it would be well over 900 with a turbo making the same 16psi of boost, I'm not denying that. I am just quite happy with how my car drives, that why would I want to tear it apart at this stage to go turbo, when I'm not even using all of what I have available right now.
Will I do it in the future, sure, why, because I like working on my car, and can't leave well enough alone.
But when it comes to making a decision for which path to chose to make 500, 600, or even 900rwhp, more than just efficiency comes into play. Things like ease of install matters to people, because not everyone is a fabricator and can modify their radiator support, or custom weld headers/flanges. Some people are intimidated by all of the potential issues with turbos such as proper oil flow to/from the turbo, proper cam/head/exhaust selection. Even packaging is a concern.
So my motor made 860 at 16psi with the blower... no doubt it would be well over 900 with a turbo making the same 16psi of boost, I'm not denying that. I am just quite happy with how my car drives, that why would I want to tear it apart at this stage to go turbo, when I'm not even using all of what I have available right now.
Will I do it in the future, sure, why, because I like working on my car, and can't leave well enough alone.
11-03-2016, 09:45 AM
#522
Not suggesting anyone change out a setup they enjoy. To me it seems like the general consensus is… “Whatever I’m personally running is the best.” With little or no proof/experience to back up that claim.
I’m not brand loyal in anyway. I just like to go as fast as possible for as little investment as possible. (which has bit me plenty) I’ve run all the power adders. If either blower style or nitrous was better in any way cost VS performance wise in my basic street cars, I’d suggest them. If someone is on the fence trying to decide between the two, it feels like I’m doing the nice thing to suggest what I’ve had the best luck with.
It’s all just opinion. I’ve had my *** handed to me by plenty blower/nitrous street cars. I like to tell myself they’ve all got 3-4x the money in their setups… but I’m sure that’s not always true… just mostly true.
I’m not brand loyal in anyway. I just like to go as fast as possible for as little investment as possible. (which has bit me plenty) I’ve run all the power adders. If either blower style or nitrous was better in any way cost VS performance wise in my basic street cars, I’d suggest them. If someone is on the fence trying to decide between the two, it feels like I’m doing the nice thing to suggest what I’ve had the best luck with.
It’s all just opinion. I’ve had my *** handed to me by plenty blower/nitrous street cars. I like to tell myself they’ve all got 3-4x the money in their setups… but I’m sure that’s not always true… just mostly true.
11-03-2016, 05:04 PM
#525
What I find funny about this thread is all the different points you guys find to argue about. Cost/ease of installation/packaging and so on yet when it comes right down to it there is no perfect combination because everyone has different needs and wants. You have many ways to make serious power ....single and twin turbo/centrifugal supercharger/roots supercharger/ screw charger/nitrous/ High Compression and then you can start combining them to even make more power or a bigger hole in the block.
When it comes to making max power a turbo seems to have the edge but with me it's not about max power, If it was I would just go BBC and turbo.
A turbo combination is in my future but I'll still enjoy my LSA supercharged 6.0 S10 (550hp) and my old school 51 five window truck with a 8-71 roots supercharger on a LS based 408 (800-900hp depending on pulley and fuel)
The S10 is setup to be a daily driver and go fast around corners and not in a straight line so that's why it got the LSA supercharger and a 6-speed.
The old truck is more old style Pro-street so it's going to have the roots blower with big and little tires (might even set it up Gasser style)
I have a second 51 Chevy truck that might get the SBE 6.0 chinese turbo treatment.
All of them should be plenty fast and fun to drive but unique in their own way.
When it comes to making max power a turbo seems to have the edge but with me it's not about max power, If it was I would just go BBC and turbo.
A turbo combination is in my future but I'll still enjoy my LSA supercharged 6.0 S10 (550hp) and my old school 51 five window truck with a 8-71 roots supercharger on a LS based 408 (800-900hp depending on pulley and fuel)
The S10 is setup to be a daily driver and go fast around corners and not in a straight line so that's why it got the LSA supercharger and a 6-speed.
The old truck is more old style Pro-street so it's going to have the roots blower with big and little tires (might even set it up Gasser style)
I have a second 51 Chevy truck that might get the SBE 6.0 chinese turbo treatment.
All of them should be plenty fast and fun to drive but unique in their own way.
11-03-2016, 05:13 PM
#526
What I find funny about this thread is all the different points you guys find to argue about. Cost/ease of installation/packaging and so on yet when it comes right down to it there is no perfect combination because everyone has different needs and wants. You have many ways to make serious power ....single and twin turbo/centrifugal supercharger/roots supercharger/ screw charger/nitrous/ High Compression and then you can start combining them to even make more power or a bigger hole in the block.
When it comes to making max power a turbo seems to have the edge but with me it's not about max power, If it was I would just go BBC and turbo.
A turbo combination is in my future but I'll still enjoy my LSA supercharged 6.0 S10 (550hp) and my old school 51 five window truck with a 8-71 roots supercharger on a LS based 408 (800-900hp depending on pulley and fuel)
The S10 is setup to be a daily driver and go fast around corners and not in a straight line so that's why it got the LSA supercharger and a 6-speed.
The old truck is more old style Pro-street so it's going to have the roots blower with big and little tires (might even set it up Gasser style)
I have a second 51 Chevy truck that might get the SBE 6.0 chinese turbo treatment.
All of them should be plenty fast and fun to drive but unique in their own way.
When it comes to making max power a turbo seems to have the edge but with me it's not about max power, If it was I would just go BBC and turbo.
A turbo combination is in my future but I'll still enjoy my LSA supercharged 6.0 S10 (550hp) and my old school 51 five window truck with a 8-71 roots supercharger on a LS based 408 (800-900hp depending on pulley and fuel)
The S10 is setup to be a daily driver and go fast around corners and not in a straight line so that's why it got the LSA supercharger and a 6-speed.
The old truck is more old style Pro-street so it's going to have the roots blower with big and little tires (might even set it up Gasser style)
I have a second 51 Chevy truck that might get the SBE 6.0 chinese turbo treatment.
All of them should be plenty fast and fun to drive but unique in their own way.
11-03-2016, 06:15 PM
#527
What I find funny about this thread is all the different points you guys find to argue about. Cost/ease of installation/packaging and so on yet when it comes right down to it there is no perfect combination because everyone has different needs and wants. You have many ways to make serious power ....single and twin turbo/centrifugal supercharger/roots supercharger/ screw charger/nitrous/ High Compression and then you can start combining them to even make more power or a bigger hole in the block.
When it comes to making max power a turbo seems to have the edge but with me it's not about max power, If it was I would just go BBC and turbo.
When it comes to making max power a turbo seems to have the edge but with me it's not about max power, If it was I would just go BBC and turbo.
11-03-2016, 07:21 PM
#528
Originally Posted by Forcefed86
I agree with this completely and enjoy playing with any performance engine. For me personally, the faster I go the more fun I have. Since I'm on a limited budget, I can go faster with a turbo than anything else. That's why I argue it's the best choice for me anyway. I get that may not be the case for everyone else...
ForcedFed - all I'm saying is what you referenced above. It's just not the best choice for everyone. Different drivers, cars and motors have different needs and different wants.
I also didn't say my setup was the best because that's what I have. But it is the best for ME for what I have now because it was the easiest and cheapest for me to set up at the time. If I go turbo it won't be cheap. I already had it quoted out by the shop I want to use for the parts and may go that route eventually. I like building cars too and trying different things. One thing I know we can prob agree on is boost is fun lol.
I also wasn't arguing efficiency as Alchemist pointed out. You pulled that out of nowhere. I would actually agree with you that turbos are efficient. The very design scavenges waste to produce power. We were actually talking about what's the fastest at that point which is why I brought up grudge cars. Not many cars faster out there that actually look like a car so figured a good example. I wasn't even saying they use the best combos but many of those guys have sky high budgets yet still pick multiple types of power adders or even go NA. But I agree with you on that it takes more than a power adder to win a race as well.
11-03-2016, 07:25 PM
#529
I already had it quoted out by the shop I want to use for the parts and may go that route eventually. It will always be expensive when paying someone to do it, or even paying their markup. I'm a big fan of DIY these days.
11-03-2016, 07:27 PM
#530
Alchemist - this is a great thread man. Lots of disagreements but tons of good info on all sides. I may have learned a thing or two about turbos in here lol
ForcedFed - all I'm saying is what you referenced above. It's just not the best choice for everyone. Different drivers, cars and motors have different needs and different wants.
I also didn't say my setup was the best because that's what I have. But it is the best for ME for what I have now because it was the easiest and cheapest for me to set up at the time. If I go turbo it won't be cheap. I already had it quoted out by the shop I want to use for the parts and may go that route eventually. I like building cars too and trying different things. One thing I know we can prob agree on is boost is fun lol.
I also wasn't arguing efficiency as Alchemist pointed out. You pulled that out of nowhere. I would actually agree with you that turbos are efficient. The very design scavenges waste to produce power. We were actually talking about what's the fastest at that point which is why I brought up grudge cars. Not many cars faster out there that actually look like a car so figured a good example. I wasn't even saying they use the best combos but many of those guys have sky high budgets yet still pick multiple types of power adders or even go NA. But I agree with you on that it takes more than a power adder to win a race as well.
ForcedFed - all I'm saying is what you referenced above. It's just not the best choice for everyone. Different drivers, cars and motors have different needs and different wants.
I also didn't say my setup was the best because that's what I have. But it is the best for ME for what I have now because it was the easiest and cheapest for me to set up at the time. If I go turbo it won't be cheap. I already had it quoted out by the shop I want to use for the parts and may go that route eventually. I like building cars too and trying different things. One thing I know we can prob agree on is boost is fun lol.
I also wasn't arguing efficiency as Alchemist pointed out. You pulled that out of nowhere. I would actually agree with you that turbos are efficient. The very design scavenges waste to produce power. We were actually talking about what's the fastest at that point which is why I brought up grudge cars. Not many cars faster out there that actually look like a car so figured a good example. I wasn't even saying they use the best combos but many of those guys have sky high budgets yet still pick multiple types of power adders or even go NA. But I agree with you on that it takes more than a power adder to win a race as well.
11-03-2016, 07:34 PM
#532
11-03-2016, 07:45 PM
#533
Originally Posted by Game ova
Not really sure why a shop would be needed to buy the parts needed, when you could buy everything you would need online....but ok.
11-03-2016, 07:51 PM
#534
I don't really know what you're arguing. I buy all my parts from shops. I get all my Procharger stuff from Bob @ Brute Speed and always will. He's helped me a ton, why would I go elsewhere. And if I go turbo I'll probably use Precision because it's 5 minutes from my house and I like the guys over there. Or I'll use On3. Or I'll buy a used setup that I talk to the shop about first. And if I buy from them I'm sure they'd help me with my build and choices as well. Worth buying from them to me. To each their own I guess.
11-03-2016, 07:59 PM
#535
Originally Posted by Game ova
Sorry I came across as argumentative. But just don't see the point of paying markup when it could be avoided. When the middle man is cutout, a build gets considerably cheaper. Go straight to the source, and you can go much further...for less.
11-03-2016, 08:08 PM
#536
I think we're saying the same thing but I don't know. If I bought a precision turbo from precision isn't that going to the source? I don't pay retail for anything I buy. I agree with you for sure. Most shops I deal with will match any other price I can find and comes with advice as well.
11-03-2016, 08:24 PM
#537
Originally Posted by Game ova
Ok, we are on the same page. When I heard you say the word "shop", I was thinking in terms of speed shop...for example vengeance racing type shop. But yea, if you can get the parts at cost through a supplier AND get the advice....that's a definite win. Btw, I have a billet pt7675 that needs seals if you are interested.
11-03-2016, 09:05 PM
#538
I agree with this completely and enjoy playing with any performance engine. For me personally, the faster I go the more fun I have. Since I'm on a limited budget, I can go faster with a turbo than anything else. That's why I argue it's the best choice for me anyway. I get that may not be the case for everyone else...
