progressive meth controller
progressive meth controller Which control is the best to use and what makes it the best. I am looking to buy one after seeing temps rise to 200 on car that doesnt have intercooler and doesnt have the room for one. I already have a cooling mist pump and nozzle. Just wanting to install and add a pre turbo shot and bigger shot up stream.
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Joined: Dec 2014
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From: Emory Texas currently
Which control is the best to use and what makes it the best. I am looking to buy one after seeing temps rise to 200 on car that doesnt have intercooler and doesnt have the room for one. I already have a cooling mist pump and nozzle. Just wanting to install and add a pre turbo shot and bigger shot up stream.
If its a reliable unit and it fits your budget, that's the one to get. I think Alky control is good, but Julio did not treat me good when I spoke with him so I went to Snow Performance. I am running one of their VC-25 progressive controllers, and it does great for my 1,008 RWHP car. You can set when it starts coming on, and when it reaches max spray. Mine starts spraying at 7#'s of boost and is max spray by 16#'s of boost.
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 484
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From: Emory Texas currently
If its a reliable unit and it fits your budget, that's the one to get. I think Alky control is good, but Julio did not treat me good when I spoke with him so I went to Snow Performance. I am running one of their VC-25 progressive controllers, and it does great for my 1,008 RWHP car. You can set when it starts coming on, and when it reaches max spray. Mine starts spraying at 7#'s of boost and is max spray by 16#'s of boost.
The snow kit is awesome. Never had any issues with any of their products or customer service. Only thing that wasn't spot on is that they recommended a dual 625 lph nozzle setup for my car and it became clear during tuning that it was just WAY too much meth. It was literally just drenching the motor with meth and was overkill. I ended up just doing a single 625 nozzle with the big pump and the progressive controller and that worked out perfect for my car.
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From: Norn Iron
Yeah, like I said, he makes great stuff, but he argued heavily with me that running a 50:50 water meth mix was a terrible idea, and it just rubbed me the wrong way when so many people have had great luck with it so I went elsewhere. That was my own opinion and I recommend to all to form their own opinions (that's what I do).
The snow kit is awesome. Never had any issues with any of their products or customer service. Only thing that wasn't spot on is that they recommended a dual 625 lph nozzle setup for my car and it became clear during tuning that it was just WAY too much meth. It was literally just drenching the motor with meth and was overkill. I ended up just doing a single 625 nozzle with the big pump and the progressive controller and that worked out perfect for my car.
The snow kit is awesome. Never had any issues with any of their products or customer service. Only thing that wasn't spot on is that they recommended a dual 625 lph nozzle setup for my car and it became clear during tuning that it was just WAY too much meth. It was literally just drenching the motor with meth and was overkill. I ended up just doing a single 625 nozzle with the big pump and the progressive controller and that worked out perfect for my car.
If you're actually referring of too much 50/50 water/meth, then yes of course that is possible, and dual 625's would be allowing a lot of water into the engine, it would need to be a big power setup to require that
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Verdad Gallardo The chances of drowning a motor with too much methanol is almost zero.
If you're actually referring of too much 50/50 water/meth, then yes of course that is possible, and dual 625's would be allowing a lot of water into the engine, it would need to be a big power setup to require that
If you're actually referring of too much 50/50 water/meth, then yes of course that is possible, and dual 625's would be allowing a lot of water into the engine, it would need to be a big power setup to require that
Yeah, like I said, he makes great stuff, but he argued heavily with me that running a 50:50 water meth mix was a terrible idea, and it just rubbed me the wrong way when so many people have had great luck with it so I went elsewhere. That was my own opinion and I recommend to all to form their own opinions (that's what I do).
The snow kit is awesome. Never had any issues with any of their products or customer service. Only thing that wasn't spot on is that they recommended a dual 625 lph nozzle setup for my car and it became clear during tuning that it was just WAY too much meth. It was literally just drenching the motor with meth and was overkill. I ended up just doing a single 625 nozzle with the big pump and the progressive controller and that worked out perfect for my car.
The snow kit is awesome. Never had any issues with any of their products or customer service. Only thing that wasn't spot on is that they recommended a dual 625 lph nozzle setup for my car and it became clear during tuning that it was just WAY too much meth. It was literally just drenching the motor with meth and was overkill. I ended up just doing a single 625 nozzle with the big pump and the progressive controller and that worked out perfect for my car.
No way you were injecting 625lph (liters per hour) Maybe you meant to say 625ml nozzle? Which is rated at 625ml per minute of flow. Which is diddly... 2 625ML nozzles is like 10gph worth of nozzle. Basically pissing in the wind on a 1000+HP worth of airflow. To say that is "Way to much meth" for a 1000hp engine is crazy.
The reason Julio was telling you to shy away from water in the mix is because you can't run water in high volumes without drowning out spark. WIth methanol you can spray 3-5x+ the volume. Which gives you 3-5x the cooling and octane bump.
I'm not against water, but for most you won't gain near as much spraying 50/50 as you can spraying 100% methanol at huge volumes.
Baby volumes of fluid give you baby gains. The more meth in the CC the bigger the gains.
You are correct, as it was 625 ml nozzle. This is the largest nozzle you can buy from Snow Performance. The dual nozzles were spraying so much it was literally coming out of my silicone coupler that goes around my throttle body (it is was tight). My tuner said we were more than fine and did not require that amount of meth, so we went with one nozzle and it did fine.
The conversation I had with Julio was years ago when I was not even on this setup. He doesn't believe in water meth mix at all for any combo. This is where he and I did not agree.
Again, there is an age old argument on which is better between running pure meth vs mixing it with water. I think both can be used effectively. Water meth mix is what I prefer and it is working great for me.
The conversation I had with Julio was years ago when I was not even on this setup. He doesn't believe in water meth mix at all for any combo. This is where he and I did not agree.
Again, there is an age old argument on which is better between running pure meth vs mixing it with water. I think both can be used effectively. Water meth mix is what I prefer and it is working great for me.
Last edited by CALL911; Jul 4, 2016 at 07:00 AM.
There is soooooo much scientific research of the best ratio of water:meoh to run its staggering, but so many people chose to ignore it since it's just dumbed down gear head logic to just spray the **** out of meth because it's fool proof.
Sure, you have to fine tune how much water:meoh you spray to get optimal results, but to me, it's worth it. There are a few calculators out there to help with that, you just have to do some math, and not be afraid to buy a couple different nozzles and adjust your tune.
The aquamist setup is what I run, and I chose to run it because of those reasons.
Sure, you have to fine tune how much water:meoh you spray to get optimal results, but to me, it's worth it. There are a few calculators out there to help with that, you just have to do some math, and not be afraid to buy a couple different nozzles and adjust your tune.
The aquamist setup is what I run, and I chose to run it because of those reasons.
So after the argument of 50/50 or meth and who prefers which will the aem system be a good choice for pre and post using 50/50? I planned on using a 2 gph pre and a 7 gph post on 50/50 mainly with the intent of cooling IAT. Have had a couple pistons nuke on the edge and saw the temps so thought that cooling was the best option. Any info appreciated.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
There is soooooo much scientific research of the best ratio of water:meoh to run its staggering, but so many people chose to ignore it since it's just dumbed down gear head logic to just spray the **** out of meth because it's fool proof.
Sure, you have to fine tune how much water:meoh you spray to get optimal results, but to me, it's worth it. There are a few calculators out there to help with that, you just have to do some math, and not be afraid to buy a couple different nozzles and adjust your tune.
The aquamist setup is what I run, and I chose to run it because of those reasons.
Sure, you have to fine tune how much water:meoh you spray to get optimal results, but to me, it's worth it. There are a few calculators out there to help with that, you just have to do some math, and not be afraid to buy a couple different nozzles and adjust your tune.
The aquamist setup is what I run, and I chose to run it because of those reasons.
There is little doubt just dumping in a shitload of methanol will offer more power etc. If there wasnt, people wouldnt use methanol as a fuel !! But then you'd nearly think some guys here run on methanol, with pump fuel injection lol.
And a lot depends on power, CR, base fuel, boost and generally how bad charge temps may be, and how knock limited the engine may be...as well as what sort of chamber temps/EGT's you want to see.
Water as some properties better than methanol....but with caveats. Methanol has some properties better than water, perhaps with fewer caveats. It's a case of finding what balance works best for each individual engine
You are correct, as it was 625 ml nozzle. This is the largest nozzle you can buy from Snow Performance. The dual nozzles were spraying so much it was literally coming out of my silicone coupler that goes around my throttle body (it is was tight). My tuner said we were more than fine and did not require that amount of meth, so we went with one nozzle and it did fine.
The conversation I had with Julio was years ago when I was not even on this setup. He doesn't believe in water meth mix at all for any combo. This is where he and I did not agree.
Again, there is an age old argument on which is better between running pure meth vs mixing it with water. I think both can be used effectively. Water meth mix is what I prefer and it is working great for me.
The conversation I had with Julio was years ago when I was not even on this setup. He doesn't believe in water meth mix at all for any combo. This is where he and I did not agree.
Again, there is an age old argument on which is better between running pure meth vs mixing it with water. I think both can be used effectively. Water meth mix is what I prefer and it is working great for me.
I'm sure you could turn off the Aux inj and still not worry about detonation.(which isn't a bad thing) If it's not detonating now and you don't want more power, why fix what isn't broken. You're not using the kit to it's max potential is all. IMO you could easily run that 2nd nozzle. Turn up your injection start point and ramp it in slower to the peak inj point.
There is soooooo much scientific research of the best ratio of water:meoh to run its staggering, but so many people chose to ignore it since it's just dumbed down gear head logic to just spray the **** out of meth because it's fool proof.
Sure, you have to fine tune how much water:meoh you spray to get optimal results, but to me, it's worth it. There are a few calculators out there to help with that, you just have to do some math, and not be afraid to buy a couple different nozzles and adjust your tune.
The aquamist setup is what I run, and I chose to run it because of those reasons.
Sure, you have to fine tune how much water:meoh you spray to get optimal results, but to me, it's worth it. There are a few calculators out there to help with that, you just have to do some math, and not be afraid to buy a couple different nozzles and adjust your tune.
The aquamist setup is what I run, and I chose to run it because of those reasons.
My point is, volume sprayed is directly proportional to gains received in either instance. And it's easier to spray high volumes of methanol VS water.
As an extreme example...
Kjewers 1000ish HP 2.0 liter engine is spraying 126+GPH of straight methanol pre-turbo (non-intercooled) @ 55+lbs of boost, and knocking the IAT temps down to 150* (which was calculated by fuel/air flow increase, not by a saturated IAT sensor) You simply can't do that with straight water on a "normal" ignition system.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Jul 4, 2016 at 12:14 PM.
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From: Norn Iron
Kjewers 1000ish HP 2.0 liter engine is spraying 126+GPH of straight methanol pre-turbo (non-intercooled) @ 55+lbs of boost, and knocking the IAT temps down to 150* (which was calculated by fuel/air flow increase, not by a saturated IAT sensor) You simply can't do that with straight water on a "normal" ignition system.
It's a meth + meth car lol.
Forcefed, not all of us are using meth for a fuel. I am using it more for additional cooling. I don't really get too hot, not running a lot of timing and have a low CR. My tuner is intimately in the know of what's going on with the setup. Like I said, for mine, it is doing great as is for what it was intended for.
Was just using it as an extreme example. It shows what high volumes of methanol are capable of. Spraying 50/50 at those levels isn't happening. Most of us don't need to drop 350* off our charge temps either.
I get that. If your combos working the way it is, no need to change anything. I was just commenting on the twin 625ml nozzles being "way to much meth" for 1000hp "V8s" in general. If you were too rich with the 2 nozzles you could have removed some fuel from your tune to compensate. Then you'd have more meth/water in the CC and benefitted more from it.
Forcefed, not all of us are using meth for a fuel. I am using it more for additional cooling. I don't really get too hot, not running a lot of timing and have a low CR. My tuner is intimately in the know of what's going on with the setup. Like I said, for mine, it is doing great as is for what it was intended for.
For the record, I never stated what the ideal ratio of water:meoh for injection. During WW2, the government spot a ton of money and time investigating how to get more power out of turbo charged airplane engines, and they found that injecting water has benefits far greater than anything else that was safe to inject (we're not going to get into explosive chemicals like nitro at this point).
But it is a little bit tricky in that if you inject too much, you WILL hurt performance. To your point, injecting too much meoh won't hurt performance, well, at least not if you have enough spark, and it doesn't get too rich afr wise.
That is my only point with why most manufacturers/tuners say to spray just meoh, because it's idiot proof and they know customers can't screw it up, but that doesn't mean it's the 'best' choice. I blend my own blend, and one day will do a direct port setup into my manifold, but then again, I'm doing my own calculations and playing with the volumes and injection rate.
But it is a little bit tricky in that if you inject too much, you WILL hurt performance. To your point, injecting too much meoh won't hurt performance, well, at least not if you have enough spark, and it doesn't get too rich afr wise.
That is my only point with why most manufacturers/tuners say to spray just meoh, because it's idiot proof and they know customers can't screw it up, but that doesn't mean it's the 'best' choice. I blend my own blend, and one day will do a direct port setup into my manifold, but then again, I'm doing my own calculations and playing with the volumes and injection rate.