Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Hi guys!

I have a 2001 SOM Camaro SS M6 that I installed a H&C LS3 5 years ago. I am the original owner, ordered the car myself and it currently has 19,xxx miles on it. My car is VERY clean, (zero rust, never driven in rain or snow) it has many mods but the car is not hacked up at all and I have 99% of my stock parts that I removed.

As you know you always get "use to" the power and want more. The past year or so, I've been getting "back" into cars again and with more new stuff coming out, it's very tempting to change my setup.

There are 2 main single turbo kits that retain the A/C system on the 98-02 F-Body cars, On3 Performance and Huron Speed. They have similar price points and similar design. I've been doing searches on here but it doesn't seem that there's a lot of "good" pictures or info on those kits installed on a somewhat "stock" looking vehicle. I live in Erie, PA and if anyone has one of these kits installed that's close to me, I'd be willing to drive to you to check it out in person. I have a few questions so hopefully some of you can help me out or point me in the right direction.

- Which kit is really more complete, On3 Performance or Huron Speed?

- How do you address the cooling fans, what do you use, pusher or stock?

- Do you have to cut any metal or any other part of the car to make these kits "fit", if so, which parts do you modify or cut?

- What is the biggest intercooler I can fit without cutting up my car?

- I know I need to drill into my oil pan for a return , where is the best location for each of these kits?

- Since I want to keep my A/C, I need to buy a Turbo K-Member, which brand would you recommend?

- Is it recommend to wrap the hot side to help control the heat?

- What MAP sensor should I use, do you have a part number?

- Since I have a T-56, which clutch do you guys recommend? I currently have a South Bend and I'm not too happy with it, that's another story.

- The car is more a street car and I might go to the track once a year, what rear gear ratio would be ideal? I currently have a Moser 9" with a 3.89.

I know I will need to upgrade my fuel system but I will do another thread about that later as needed.

I've built many LS combos over the years in one way or another but this is my first time doing a turbo set up. I know each kit probably has its pros and cons, but I will have to decide which one fits my style and my car.

Thanks for reading and helping me out!

Bill

KCS

iTrader: (20)

You know the Huron Speed kit is on sale in a Group Purchase deal right?

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...sale-year.html

I put my deposit down, so of course I'm going to suggest you go with them too. It's already close to the first $100 price break. Plus you can still get a free BOV or another $50 off coupon.

2000WS6TA

iTrader: (5)

- Which kit is really more complete, On3 Performance or Huron Speed?
the shop i use put a Huron kit on my car then a On3 on another a few weeks later and said neither should really use the word "Kit" but the Huron was easier to manage.
- How do you address the cooling fans, what do you use, pusher or stock?
pusher fans are recommended but i was able to trim up and flip my stockers
- Do you have to cut any metal or any other part of the car to make these kits "fit", if so, which parts do you modify or cut?
i dont remember them having to cut and metal with Huron Speed
- What is the biggest intercooler I can fit without cutting up my car?
not sure on size but i know the one with the T4 non AC kit from Huron i had to take a nice chunk out of my WS6 bumper. but it was underneath and hardly noticeable. i believe the camaros fit better
- I know I need to drill into my oil pan for a return , where is the best location for each of these kits?
there is a nice spot right above the oil filter
- Since I want to keep my A/C, I need to buy a Turbo K-Member, which brand would you recommend?
my bmr works well, but they are all very similar
- Is it recommend to wrap the hot side to help control the heat?
yes
- What MAP sensor should I use, do you have a part number?
couldn't tell ya..sorry
- Since I have a T-56, which clutch do you guys recommend? I currently have a South Bend and I'm not too happy with it, that's another story.
i have the monster LT1/S i think? whichever the middle one is. its a little chatty but very manageable
- The car is more a street car and I might go to the track once a year, what rear gear ratio would be ideal? I currently have a Moser 9" with a 3.89.
that should work just fine in my opinion

Hope that helps!!

ls1charged

iTrader: (8)

If you want Quality and customer service then go Huron! The prices are pretty dang close these days too, especially with the group purchase right now!

Superman09

iTrader: (65)

Thanks for the post! One thing to note is the support you will receive from us as well if you choose to go with a kit from us. We are available 7 days a week to answer any questions you may have and also really support and follow the forums here as well!
We just released our latest version of the A/C kit, the V3. This kit now comes standard with the air filter for the turbo, turbo blanket, roll of heat wrap, the full oil feed and drain line set-up with fittings, all hardware, pre-drilled IAT sensor hole, and much more. We are always improving our designs to best fit consumers needs and requests, and now after having this kit on the market for several years now and hundreds of customer's vehicles I feel we really have this V3 kit nailed by updating it to be more complete than ever to go along with the quality of components and fitment.

For cooling fans, our kit allows you to retain the factory radiator in the factory position by running a pair of Derale #16925 pusher cooling fans.

No metal cutting required.

Minimal trimming to your front bumper (the lower section where it wraps down and under fits best if trimmed up, which is very easy to do, this is with our standard 4" thick intercooler)

Drilling the oil pan is needed for the oil return, and our install guide covers this along with a photo showing you of the exact recommended location.

For a K-member, both BMR and PA Racing are solid choices, we have had great success with both and our kit will also fit around either one. Purchasing from us we also combine bundle deals on the K-member of your choice so you can save some more!

Heat wrap is nice to use, ceramic coating IMO is the best choice, but more costly. At the very least use some of the SUPPLIED heat wrap with our kit in areas where the hot piping is closer to other items on the car for simple heat protection.

MAP Sensor, 2-bar : 12615136 Part Number

For a clutch I would run a twin disc. Will have no issues holding the power and drive extremely well on the street. I would do a Monster or a McLeod RST.

Your rear gearing will be alright. I would recommend running it as is for now and see how you like it!

Hope this helps, any other questions I can always be reached at: Jon@HuronSpeed.com for a quick response, even later in the evenings and weekends!

98redorangeta

iTrader: (10)

Lots of good questions I have asked a lot of them my self when looking at these kits should help a lot of people.

BIGDRAGON

iTrader: (9)

Huron Speed FTW!

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Thanks guys for the info! Keep it coming!

Are there any links or builds that show a bunch of "good" finished install pictures? Somebody (On3 or Huron) has to have some on a somewhat stock vehicle.

As for minimal trimming, do you have to trim the painted part of the bumper or the black plastic underneath? With my car in just about perfect shape (it really is), I have no desire to cut any metal or plastic parts. If I can buy used plastic parts to cut up, I'd go that route to keep my stock parts, stock shape.

What about the foam bumper support, remove or modify?

As for the fans, the Derale #16925 pusher cooling fans don't seem to last too long for some people, plus they draw a TON of power, (Amps). Any other options for fans?

Does anyone make a fan harness extension to use with the pusher fans?

One kit uses cast exhaust manifolds, the other one uses custom built stainless exhaust manifolds, WHY? Is it cost? Years ago, I almost bought the TTI Single Turbo kit but changed my mind since a lot of people were having issues with the stainless exhaust log manifold cracking over time.

This may be harsh and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but Like 2000WS6TA said, these are not really Turbo Kits, why do companies like On3 and Huron market it as such and when you "add" what is really required to make the "kit" work on a stock vehicle, the ~ $1,999,99 price ends up being close to double.

Why not offer a "Real Turbo Kit" for a stock car, have options for upgrades and then market it appropriately. It almost seems, Bait and Switch. Bait with the low price and Switch with all the things you really need to buy to make it work on your car. I'm sure there are some guys that will just by the "base" kit and then later on, say a few months go by they start to realize that they need a ton more parts, now it's starting to nickle and dime you, UGH. Don't get me wrong, it's still a "good deal" to make big power over a Supercharger or LARGE CI stroker. From a marketing standpoint, companies would sell more if they made real kits. Say you don't need a few items since you have them, check a box online to customize your order, just seems backwards the way it is now.

Ok, I'm done venting...

I'm still very interested in a turbo kit, both the On3 and Huron seem promising, my goal is to make at least 700 RWHP, anymore is just icing on the cake. If I decide to go this route, I will be doing a full build write up on here with a ton of pics to help others out.

Superman09

iTrader: (65)

Thanks guys for the info! Keep it coming!

Are there any links or builds that show a bunch of "good" finished install pictures? Somebody (On3 or Huron) has to have some on a somewhat stock vehicle.

Do a search in this part of the forum and you will find tons of Huron Speed build threads with tons of photos. Unfortunately not all customers share photos with us, but there are plenty out there and also on our website as well!

As for minimal trimming, do you have to trim the painted part of the bumper or the black plastic underneath? With my car in just about perfect shape (it really is), I have no desire to cut any metal or plastic parts. If I can buy used plastic parts to cut up, I'd go that route to keep my stock parts, stock shape.

You do not HAVE to trim, but it will fit nicer if you do. The bottom of the bumper has 3 pockets in it where it uses push pins to secure to the bottom of the metal bumper support. Since the intercooler is larger and sits lower than the bumper support did, the bumper sits funny with these pockets pushing the bumper down from the intercooler. If you trim out these pockets it wraps around the bottom of the intercooler nicely.

What about the foam bumper support, remove or modify?

The foam goes and the intercooler mounts in place of the front bumper support and foam

As for the fans, the Derale #16925 pusher cooling fans don't seem to last too long for some people, plus they draw a TON of power, (Amps). Any other options for fans?

I have never had a single issue with one or heard of any customers having one fail. I run them on all of my person projects also, never had an issue with the fans. I have melted a standard 30amp fuse like everyone else and tossed in a 40amp and never had an issue again. They keep the car extremely cool, which is the job at hand here

Does anyone make a fan harness extension to use with the pusher fans?

I do not believe so however the fans themselves come with the relay, pigtail, fuse holder, and instructions on how to wire them up. It is nothing difficult and I can assist on how to set everything up.

One kit uses cast exhaust manifolds, the other one uses custom built stainless exhaust manifolds, WHY? Is it cost? Years ago, I almost bought the TTI Single Turbo kit but changed my mind since a lot of people were having issues with the stainless exhaust log manifold cracking over time.

We have never had a manifold crack or fail. We also warranty our piping for LIFE to the original customer, so you can purchase with confidence!

This may be harsh and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but Like 2000WS6TA said, these are not really Turbo Kits, why do companies like On3 and Huron market it as such and when you "add" what is really required to make the "kit" work on a stock vehicle, the ~ $1,999,99 price ends up being close to double.

They are not in a form where you can go on the website and click one button and get it to your door from us for many reasons.
Turbo set-ups need to be matched to your current vehicle set-up, the engine specs, the use of the vehicle, your preferences, and also your budget. With this there is no way to make 1 single kit in a box that fits everyone's needs. We provide options for the customer to select the turbo that best matches their engine set up, use, budget and preference of brand if they have one. Same with the other components such as wastegate and BOV. In terms of other components to add in, these cars are now 15+ years old and 95% of them most likely are already modified. That being said if the customer is coming from another turbo set up to ours, they may already have the fans, they may already have a fuel system, they may already have a turbo, etc.
Fueling also depends on your goals and also type of fuel running. A simple set of injectors and pump would limit our kit, this way the customer can add in exactly what they need to meet their specific goals.
Other options such as coatings are simply nice options to have. Not required but some prefer to have their hot side coated, other prefer to customize their kit some with powder.
An out of the box 1 kit fits all simply does NOT work. If that is the form that a kit comes in for something like this, then set-up will not perform exactly how you hope as it is not being based upon your needs and car's current set-up. If everyone had the same goals and the same 100% stock form car then it would be a different story but rarely do we come across 2 of the same cars in terms of the above.

Why not offer a "Real Turbo Kit" for a stock car, have options for upgrades and then market it appropriately. It almost seems, Bait and Switch. Bait with the low price and Switch with all the things you really need to buy to make it work on your car. I'm sure there are some guys that will just by the "base" kit and then later on, say a few months go by they start to realize that they need a ton more parts, now it's starting to nickle and dime you, UGH. Don't get me wrong, it's still a "good deal" to make big power over a Supercharger or LARGE CI stroker. From a marketing standpoint, companies would sell more if they made real kits. Say you don't need a few items since you have them, check a box online to customize your order, just seems backwards the way it is now.

Please see the above. If you are thinking we are trying to pull something on customers then you are certainly wrong and I am sure many here can vouch that we are here for our customers and would never try to bait and switch. Hell if we didn't care I would not be spending the time on the forum right now trying to help you out and explain why we run our business how we do. If you do not agree with the way that we sell our kits then I am sorry but it is the best way we have found to properly set up a customer with a kit. Not to mention not everyone can purchase EVERYTHING up front, so this way they can get their kit now and add in others and extras shortly.

Ok, I'm done venting...

I'm still very interested in a turbo kit, both the On3 and Huron seem promising, my goal is to make at least 700 RWHP, anymore is just icing on the cake. If I decide to go this route, I will be doing a full build write up on here with a ton of pics to help others out.

Thanks for the thread and hopefully I was able to help out with some of your questions. If you have any others feel free to ask. I am here to help out, I am here to support the forum, and I am here for our customers before, during, and after their turbo build.

ls1charged

iTrader: (8)

just FYI, you sound like your in the same boat as i was a year ago..... i did endless research on kits because like many im on a budget and want the best bang for the buck.... after said research, even on other forums of each of these kits, i noticed a trend.... (trying not to company bash) one company has numerous quality issues, even the ford guys bitch about on theyre forums, and when you have a question or concern, the customer service is absent..... now with the other company, my research has come to show MANY happy customers with a quality fitting product meaning less headaches down the road, not to mention arguably the best customer service on the forum.... if you research as much as i did youll figure out which companies im talking about, it wont even take that much research to be honest

fitzgerald_ss

Wanted to chime in. I'm in the process of installing my Huron speed kit here in New York. I was also thrown up on using Huron or on3. I'll try to answer each question you had. I ultimately decided on Huron speed and I've been extremely pleased with what I've got so far.

-as far as completeness, the Huron kit has literally everything I needed except the fuel system; which was an option to get through them as well if I'm not mistaken. Huron kit came with all hot side and cold side, turbo, oil lines, fittings needed for oil lines, hardware, intercooler, clamps, couplers, bov, wastegate, air filter, even came with a roll of heat wrap.

-as far as cooling fans, my kit came complete with the derale pusher fans that are needed for clearance.

-my engine is not in the car yet, but so far all I see is trimming of the plastic splash shield for cold side piping which is going to be necessary with any kit.

-the intercooler with the kit is 4 inches thick, fairly large imo but fits well where it needs to go without hacking the car up.

-the oil drain goes into the pan near the oil filter, the install kit Huron has shows exactly where it needs to go.

-I opted to delete ac since I never use it anyways. As far as which k member this I'm not sure!

-hurons kit came with heat wrap, and since your pushing all the exhaust into the engine bay I think it's a good idea to heat wrap, and I am heat wrapping my entire hot side.

- stock map will work to a certain boost level. I just ordered a 2.5 bar plug and play. But I plan to run 15+ psi.

-I've yet to order a clutch, but I have one in mind.

-I have 3.55 in my 12 bolt. I'm sure 3.89 will be fine. But you may have a hard time keeping tires in the car in any lower gear I know generally turbo guys look for a taller gear.

If you want to message me we can talk clutch, map and fuel system feel free. I've got my fuel setup already as well. I've got a picture of my hot side mocked up I'll try to attach. I haven't really post on here in the past so bear with me!

One thing that really sold me on the Huron kit was not having to relocate my alternator like the on3. Just one less thing to worry about. Oh, and all the hot side connections are vbands not studded collectors.

I'm not at all knocking on3 by any means. But I am 100% satisfied with my Huron kit. As far as I know I am one of the first people to actually get the v3 kit. And Jon over at Huron has been great at answering any questions I've had. Doesn't matter what day of the week it is he's there to help. This is also my first turbo build. I'd say for the price of the kit, you can't beat the quality.

Like I said feel free to shoot me a message! Good luck with your car

ls1charged

iTrader: (8)

get in on the huron group purchase and you and everyone else saves an additional $100!!!

HolyShiznit

iTrader: (11)

Jumping in a little late but I cant say enough nice things about the Huron Speed team. My kit has held up well up to 850whp through an auto. Only at this high level have some of the BASE kit components needed to be addressed. My kit is a V1 from way back in the day (3 years now) so its logical that the team has updated components but also kept costs shockingly close to the same.

If you want to see how it performs I encourage you to watch this or visit my FB page: CastingCouch

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=THpFpiKodiU

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Thanks again for more info guys! In some ways I agree what Superman09 is saying but in other ways, not so much. Don't want this turning into a debate thread but if you think about it, how can it be called a "turbo kit" if it doesn't even include a turbo in the base price? Shouldn't it be labeled as "Hot/Cold Side Turbo Parts? It's like going to the GM dealer to buy a new car and then when your ready to buy it, they tell you, oh by the way, you need to buy an engine and transmission as well on top of the price of the "car"... lol

I'm surprised On3 Performance hasn't been in this thread yet, starting to make me wonder why?

Anyways........... So, let's talk about building my "kit" .........

Say I rebuilt my LS3 into a forged motor, run 12-14lbs of boost and I want to keep my A/C.

- What cam would be recommended?
- Excluding the Fuel system and K-member, what would all the options I need to make the Huron Speed kit work on my car?
- What size/type turbo would I need?
- Journal Bearing or Ball Bearing?
- Do I need a Oil scavenging pump for the turbo?
- How do I setup my PCV system?
- Any other odds and ends?

Like I said before, I set a goal of 700 RWHP anything more would be awesome, what would my kit look like on paper (list it here) and the total price for a full kit (minus the fuel system, k-member, and tuning)? It's mainly a street car and I put about 1,000 miles a year on it. (Hard Miles)

Bill

ls1charged

iTrader: (8)

if you search youll find numerous threads for each question you just asked, your goal and setup has been ran numerous times by numerous people

BMR Sales2

iTrader: (40)

I would really recommend using Huron Speed for many reasons. Jon and the guys over at Huron Speed are amazing to deal with all the way through the process.

I personally have their twin turbo kit for my 03 C5 Z06 but I also have many, many customers that use their kits with our BMR turbo k-members for the F-Body so I have a bit of experience with them too. The customer service you receive after the purchase is second to none. I know I have had questions that Jon and guys have answered both during and after hours on my install. They have nice fitting kits that produce numbers without breaking the bank. You really can't beat their prices for the quality of the kit. Also they definitely have the most complete kit available so you aren't having to piece together stuff and source parts from different places.

I would give Huron Speed a call and I am sure after a chat with them you will be sold on the product and services they offer. If you do a quick search on the forums about Huron Speed you will see nothing but satisfied customers and cars making power.

Superman09

iTrader: (65)

You are really hard on us here for wording.... let's get over wording here and help you with what really matters here, the parts and your car


- What cam would be recommended?
*Depends what you want out of a cam. Do you want a smooth or rough idle? We have many good options available from Tick that are proven and we have used many times, or else you can consult one of the good cam professionals on the forum here for a custom spec
- Excluding the Fuel system and K-member, what would all the options I need to make the Huron Speed kit work on my car?
*I would recommend looking into a PCV catch can from MightyMouseSolutions, and then some basic vacuum lines to set up your boost reference how you prefer and based around what all components you have on the car that require boost reference (wastegate, BOV, boost gauge, boost controller, meth kit, fuel pressure regulator, etc) Set of TR6 spark plugs would be advised for your goals as well.
- What size/type turbo would I need?
*For your goals, I would run a 7575-7875 billet wheel turbo. We have many options here based upon your preference for brand, bearings, and of course budget. We will have our own house brand available soon in a 7875 Billet journal bearing form for roughly $600 and then Turbonetics Billet 7575 single BB, Precision Billet 7675cea journal bearing, ball bearing, and Comp CT43 Billet 7875 journal bearing, 3BB. All of these will perform very similar to one another and will all come with a 1 year warranty as well. Boils down to your brand preference and budget.
- Journal Bearing or Ball Bearing?
*I would save your money here and go Journal Bearing, we have enough displacement to spool these turbos with extreme ease.
- Do I need a Oil scavenging pump for the turbo?
*Not required
- How do I setup my PCV system?
*Check out the Mightymousesolutions PCV Can set-up, very nice addition and they also offer fully hook-up diagrams to make sure you properly install and prevent boosting the crank case!
- Any other odds and ends?
*Really just additional options at this point such as methanol, boost controller, etc which are not required

ls1charged

iTrader: (8)

Say What???!

Superman09

iTrader: (65)

Been in the works for a while now, will post on it when it's ready here in the coming days!

ls1charged

iTrader: (8)

nice! still deciding what turbo to go with but have a little over a month before the turbo kit gets here anyways