Why no inline "booster" pumps?
I’d be willing to send you pumps. I’m more interested in the flow ranges above 100+psi. I’m curious what dictates the pressure between the first and second pump.
I was thinking I could use the $23 shipped 044 clones. Could run 2 pumps in parallel supplying 1 in series. Then check the 3 in parallel at like high pressures.
I was thinking I could use the $23 shipped 044 clones. Could run 2 pumps in parallel supplying 1 in series. Then check the 3 in parallel at like high pressures.
I will have to see what fluids we have them calibrated for in the anticipated range and then just correct for the fluid we run. I will run a fluid with KNOWN properties such as dodecane (similar to diesel) or heptane (0 octane) or iso-octane (100 octane) or Viscor 16A and 16B (fuel injection calibration fluid I have worked with on previous projects).
I will also throw a high accuracy pressure transducer in upstream AND downstream of the booster pump to see if there is a pressure differential. Will only use 1 pump on the parallel fuel pump setup test obviously.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,482
Likes: 1,026
From: Wichita, KS
Believe It’s the other way around with compounds. Large turbo feeding smaller. It’s because air is compressible as, Stevie said. You can take all the air molecules in a room and compress them down to a much smaller size. Can’t really take a 20 gallons of fuel and shrink it down to 1 gallon size by pressurizing it. If 1 pump is fed by another though, it won’t have to work as hard. Bad comparison on my part.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,482
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From: Wichita, KS
I can build a test stand with whatever pump/plumbing scenario(s) we want with the pumps in hand. I would use short lengths of 3/8 fuel injection hose, plumb a coriolis flow meter ($$$$ thank god I have access to alot of them in different flow ranges)...
I will have to see what fluids we have them calibrated for in the anticipated range and then just correct for the fluid we run. I will run a fluid with KNOWN properties such as dodecane (similar to diesel) or heptane (0 octane) or iso-octane (100 octane) or Viscor 16A and 16B (fuel injection calibration fluid I have worked with on previous projects).
I will also throw a high accuracy pressure transducer in upstream AND downstream of the booster pump to see if there is a pressure differential. Will only use 1 pump on the parallel fuel pump setup test obviously.
I will have to see what fluids we have them calibrated for in the anticipated range and then just correct for the fluid we run. I will run a fluid with KNOWN properties such as dodecane (similar to diesel) or heptane (0 octane) or iso-octane (100 octane) or Viscor 16A and 16B (fuel injection calibration fluid I have worked with on previous projects).
I will also throw a high accuracy pressure transducer in upstream AND downstream of the booster pump to see if there is a pressure differential. Will only use 1 pump on the parallel fuel pump setup test obviously.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 382
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I just set my nova up with a booster pump. I have a in tank 450 with a -6 feed (about 2 feet) to a Y then I have a bosch 044 pump that has -6 feed to the y then a -8 length of car to fuel rail. I'm running holley efi so I have the inline pump coming on @ 150kpa.
When I tested the system I noticed the 2nd pump bumped the pressure 5psi when activated
When I tested the system I noticed the 2nd pump bumped the pressure 5psi when activated
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
The same will not apply to liquids.
And that article FF posted does state specifically centrifugal pumps. Any fuel pump I've seen or taken apart are not centrifugal in design. SO I'm sure that will affect any tests.
But the article does also seem to imply in series offers little extra flow, just more pressure ability. In parallel will be double the flow.
It'd be more like feeding a huge turbo into a tiny 112 Roots blower with no bypass ability. At some point the 112 blower will limit power no matter how big a turbo you try and ram air through it.
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 8
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From: Sacramento, Ca
I can build a test stand with whatever pump/plumbing scenario(s) we want with the pumps in hand. I would use short lengths of 3/8 fuel injection hose, plumb a coriolis flow meter ($$$$ thank god I have access to alot of them in different flow ranges)...
I will have to see what fluids we have them calibrated for in the anticipated range and then just correct for the fluid we run. I will run a fluid with KNOWN properties such as dodecane (similar to diesel) or heptane (0 octane) or iso-octane (100 octane) or Viscor 16A and 16B (fuel injection calibration fluid I have worked with on previous projects).
I will also throw a high accuracy pressure transducer in upstream AND downstream of the booster pump to see if there is a pressure differential. Will only use 1 pump on the parallel fuel pump setup test obviously.
I will have to see what fluids we have them calibrated for in the anticipated range and then just correct for the fluid we run. I will run a fluid with KNOWN properties such as dodecane (similar to diesel) or heptane (0 octane) or iso-octane (100 octane) or Viscor 16A and 16B (fuel injection calibration fluid I have worked with on previous projects).
I will also throw a high accuracy pressure transducer in upstream AND downstream of the booster pump to see if there is a pressure differential. Will only use 1 pump on the parallel fuel pump setup test obviously.
It seems the old walbro 255 pumps did great in parallel even at 70-80 psi. Not sure parallel centrifugal walbro 400/450's can perform as well at higher pressures.
Better yet maybe Denmah can do a series test LOL! His two Walbro's would not cut the mustard up at high boost......not sure a booster pump can get him there or not.
As far as fuel pump flow versus pressure, there are graphs online for all of the pumps including the 255, 450, 380, 044, etc etc. I will reproduce the single pump flow, then dual parallel, then single with booster in series, and then could do dual in parallel to a single booster (although I think the single booster may be a restriction...although its getting pressurized feed, and not having to lift the fluid.
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Verdad Gallardo 9 Second Club
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From: Norn Iron
Would be very interesting to see what a series test with say a walbro 450 first boosted by an AEM 380 and then vice versa. Maybe a walbro 450 pump would maintain flow better at higher pressures if it is fed higher pressure fuel to it's inlet vs sucking out of a tank.
It seems the old walbro 255 pumps did great in parallel even at 70-80 psi. Not sure parallel centrifugal walbro 400/450's can perform as well at higher pressures.
Better yet maybe Denmah can do a series test LOL! His two Walbro's would not cut the mustard up at high boost......not sure a booster pump can get him there or not.
It seems the old walbro 255 pumps did great in parallel even at 70-80 psi. Not sure parallel centrifugal walbro 400/450's can perform as well at higher pressures.
Better yet maybe Denmah can do a series test LOL! His two Walbro's would not cut the mustard up at high boost......not sure a booster pump can get him there or not.
And pretty sure a 450 is not a centrifugal design ? although I havent opened one up
You can see how they take a fatty at higher pressures. Additionally it shows how voltage changes the current draw (P=V*I) and alos how current demand increases with pressure as well.
I could throw a volt meter and current clamp on the pumps during the tests as well if thats of interest?
I could throw a volt meter and current clamp on the pumps during the tests as well if thats of interest?
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
The pumps I've taken apart were either a vane type pump or like a roller cell ( Bosch ). Although a lot of those big Weldon style are obviously gear.
I'd assumed most of the Walbro's were like a vane design
So I have a pretty good writeup I smacked together in about 30 minutes with a bunch of diagrams and whatnot for this upcoming test. Im thinking I should start a new thread as It will be a lot of information and data generated, as well as calculations and some conclusive discussion.
So I have a pretty good writeup I smacked together in about 30 minutes with a bunch of diagrams and whatnot for this upcoming test. Im thinking I should start a new thread as It will be a lot of information and data generated, as well as calculations and some conclusive discussion.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,482
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From: Wichita, KS
Unfortunately the more I look at these 044 clones the more disappointing they are. Which is expected for $23 a pump don’t get me wrong. The AEM380 is rated at 90gph at 70psi. Looks like these knock off are lucky to do half that at 70psi. You’d basically need 2 knockoffs to equal 1 AEM380. I’m also not sure they will even reach 100psi pressure wise, which is a bummer.
You would most likely need 4 (or more) of these in parallel to handle big power and they don’t sound like they will be high pressure friendly. At $23 a pop it’s still a very affordable option, but the amp draw is getting pretty out of control with 4+ pumps. I don’t have the spare cash to test 3 AEM 380’s. Price spiked to $150 these too. Picked mine up for $128 shipped last year.
I’m still all for testing the 3 knock offs, but the results won’t be stellar compared to AEM 380’s. Figure 130ish GPH for $70 worth of pump (plus fittings) is still pretty darn good if you ran them all parallel. Assuming the booster pump can handle 100-120 psi like I’m hoping it should be a relevant test anyway.
I’d be willing to throw in 1 AEM380. If anyone else wants to throw in another 1 or 2 we could test those as well I’m sure.
You would most likely need 4 (or more) of these in parallel to handle big power and they don’t sound like they will be high pressure friendly. At $23 a pop it’s still a very affordable option, but the amp draw is getting pretty out of control with 4+ pumps. I don’t have the spare cash to test 3 AEM 380’s. Price spiked to $150 these too. Picked mine up for $128 shipped last year.
I’m still all for testing the 3 knock offs, but the results won’t be stellar compared to AEM 380’s. Figure 130ish GPH for $70 worth of pump (plus fittings) is still pretty darn good if you ran them all parallel. Assuming the booster pump can handle 100-120 psi like I’m hoping it should be a relevant test anyway.
I’d be willing to throw in 1 AEM380. If anyone else wants to throw in another 1 or 2 we could test those as well I’m sure.
the aem pump gets the job done. I have one on my nova and replaced a 044 with it. I have ran 9.90 at 137 mph with a single 380. and this year im going to a holley aftermarket reg and running my 380 with a 044 side by side .