Coolant in oil, head gasket?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 31
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From: Alberta Canada
Coolant in oil, head gasket? Hey guys,
I've recently build a 2009 Chev 1500 4.8L with a 76mm turbo and front mount intercooler, I have stock LS9 head gaskets from rock auto , PAC 1218 valve springs. Along with new intake manifold gaskets. Bottom end all stock.
My problem, I was tuning it last year, only did 4 pulls, and trans was slipping so I stopped, parked it for winter, it's been sitting, with a lot of short starts and stops pulling it in and out of garage.
I was pulling the trans and noticed frothy oil in the Waste gate. I checked the dipstick
And boom, full of coolant. Naturally I thought head gaskets. (Keep in mind brand new ls9 gaskets , and I did follow the proper tori queen sequence and specs) I pulled the heads off today, and I didn't see any tell tale signs of gasket failure???
I'm relatively green to this stuff, basic experience, but never seen a blown head gasket before.
Is it
Possible that my new ls9 gaskets could have had a failure without showing much for signs?
I did sand the surfaces down a bit, it's possible I used the wrong grit or uneven sanding?
Could it be anything else?
Someone help?
Any thoughts???
I've recently build a 2009 Chev 1500 4.8L with a 76mm turbo and front mount intercooler, I have stock LS9 head gaskets from rock auto , PAC 1218 valve springs. Along with new intake manifold gaskets. Bottom end all stock.
My problem, I was tuning it last year, only did 4 pulls, and trans was slipping so I stopped, parked it for winter, it's been sitting, with a lot of short starts and stops pulling it in and out of garage.
I was pulling the trans and noticed frothy oil in the Waste gate. I checked the dipstick
And boom, full of coolant. Naturally I thought head gaskets. (Keep in mind brand new ls9 gaskets , and I did follow the proper tori queen sequence and specs) I pulled the heads off today, and I didn't see any tell tale signs of gasket failure???
I'm relatively green to this stuff, basic experience, but never seen a blown head gasket before.
Is it
Possible that my new ls9 gaskets could have had a failure without showing much for signs?
I did sand the surfaces down a bit, it's possible I used the wrong grit or uneven sanding?
Could it be anything else?
Someone help?
Any thoughts???
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Alberta Canada
Stored in my garage all winter, yes it's cold , I live in Canada and my garage isn't heated. But I've never had an issue and it's been parked outside previous winters. There was significant antifreeze in the oil, the whole oil was milky and light brown.
Side note there was no oil in the coolant and no noticeable white smoke on running, nor could I hear any hissing while running.
Is there any way my crankcase pressure control could have caused a back up? I have it vented to a catch can through a one day valve..?
How would I diagnose a cracked block?
Side note there was no oil in the coolant and no noticeable white smoke on running, nor could I hear any hissing while running.
Is there any way my crankcase pressure control could have caused a back up? I have it vented to a catch can through a one day valve..?
How would I diagnose a cracked block?
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,080
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I found the RF and LR 8mm head bolts very loose on stock LM7s allowing coolant to seep past head gasket and drain into pan. GM did have issues with cracked heads on Castech castings installed on LR4, LM7, LH6, L33, L59 allowing coolant leak down into pan. Check out TSB No.: 06-06-01-019B. Easiest way to find is pressure test cooling system without coolant and listen for air leaks. It will be very clear if a leak is present.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Alberta Canada
The 8mm bolts were definitely snug - I torqued them to spec as ARP states. But to be honest I was expecting them to be tighter?? Maybe that's it???
Also it should be noted the passenger side rearmost head bolts (13mm) had frothy oil all throughout them as I pulled them out the hole, the others was just a tiny bit. Not sure if that's significant.
There was I'd say almost half a quart extra oil (antifreeze) when I drained the oil.
I'm going to take my alum (243) heads into work and get a guy to red dye test it for cracks.
I'm not ruling out a block crack yet either? But correct me if I'm wrong wouldn't that be fairly noticeable?? I ran my finger all along both head surfaces block and heads and didn't feel any thing unusual?
This just seems most strange. Let me take a pic of the gaskets and heads and see if you guys see anything ??!
Also it should be noted the passenger side rearmost head bolts (13mm) had frothy oil all throughout them as I pulled them out the hole, the others was just a tiny bit. Not sure if that's significant.
There was I'd say almost half a quart extra oil (antifreeze) when I drained the oil.
I'm going to take my alum (243) heads into work and get a guy to red dye test it for cracks.
I'm not ruling out a block crack yet either? But correct me if I'm wrong wouldn't that be fairly noticeable?? I ran my finger all along both head surfaces block and heads and didn't feel any thing unusual?
This just seems most strange. Let me take a pic of the gaskets and heads and see if you guys see anything ??!
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 31
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From: Alberta Canada
Yes it gets cold here, -30 Celsius . Which is around -30 f I think. Anyway it's cold. It was the colour of a caramel latte. Frothy and light brown, in pretty confidant it was coolant.
Yes go oilers go- the city is insane right now!
The cheap head gasket is a good idea, I will try that. I got the heads off and in the trunk, I will get them red dye tested tomorrow.
So just gasket and heads on then presurize the coolant system?
Maybe I should do compression text while
I'm there.
I just assumed I'd see a big
Defect in my gasket so I didn't do any diagnosis.
Can I reuse my ARP head bolts? I know they say you shouldn't , but in reality have guys done it?
Yes go oilers go- the city is insane right now!
The cheap head gasket is a good idea, I will try that. I got the heads off and in the trunk, I will get them red dye tested tomorrow.
So just gasket and heads on then presurize the coolant system?
Maybe I should do compression text while
I'm there.
I just assumed I'd see a big
Defect in my gasket so I didn't do any diagnosis.
Can I reuse my ARP head bolts? I know they say you shouldn't , but in reality have guys done it?
well the heads are off now so I'd take them and have them pressure tested.
next i'd make sure I didnt accidentally break though a blind head bolt hole by torquing the bolt without cleaning out the hole. rubber tipped air nozzle in each bolt hole will find a leaker.
yes i'd reuse the head bolts...and probably the gaskets too if it were me lol
i probably would have changed the oil and see if it did it again right away
next i'd make sure I didnt accidentally break though a blind head bolt hole by torquing the bolt without cleaning out the hole. rubber tipped air nozzle in each bolt hole will find a leaker.
yes i'd reuse the head bolts...and probably the gaskets too if it were me lol
i probably would have changed the oil and see if it did it again right away
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 31
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From: Alberta Canada
I did chase the holes with a tap and blew air in them. Maybe I missed one, it's possible. Did the dye penetrant test, no cracks on the head ... tomorrow I'll have the machinist check to see if it's warped, looking down it , it looks fine. This is weird. I can't find anything. Out of the ordinary...? ��
TECH Regular
Joined: Sep 2014
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I totally would have verified an issue actually exists with at least one, if not two fairly successive oil changes to see if the issue persists before digging deeper.
It's not entirely unheard of, especially just pulling the car in/out of the garage in winter without completely warming up the engine, for a fair amount of condensation to accrue on the cold inner surfaces of the engine and drip down into the pan. Once it's in the oil, it sinks to the bottom and has no chance of evaporating. It just waits there for the next time the engine is started and gets pumped through the galleries, beaten into submission, and emulsifies with the oil.
Now, oil mixed with ethylene glycol (the green antifreeze) has a distinct smell. To me, it smells like cookie dough. If the oil smelled of cookie dough, I would have dug right into the engine.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 31
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From: Alberta Canada
Hahaha cookie dough! Good to know!
Ok I'm optimisitic and I'll tell you why, when I first drained the pan is say about a cup of water came out first !! Maybe your right? It's emulsified oil?!!! There is light maybe at the end of the tunnel!
Trouble is, now I got the 6.0L bug in my brain. Plan was 600hp from the 4.8 till she blew- 20psi on a speed density tune. But I'd bet that 6.0 would pump 600 all day at a jogging pace with a cam and 9psi, could still run the VE tune!
Ok guys, due to the abundance of cheap gen 3 out there. What would I have to do to make a 6.0 gen 3 run in my gen 4 truck?
-gen 3 ecu.
-throttle cable
What else??
I assume I'd leave the e38 in place to run the dash gauges ?
Anyone done this?
Ok I'm optimisitic and I'll tell you why, when I first drained the pan is say about a cup of water came out first !! Maybe your right? It's emulsified oil?!!! There is light maybe at the end of the tunnel!
Trouble is, now I got the 6.0L bug in my brain. Plan was 600hp from the 4.8 till she blew- 20psi on a speed density tune. But I'd bet that 6.0 would pump 600 all day at a jogging pace with a cam and 9psi, could still run the VE tune!
Ok guys, due to the abundance of cheap gen 3 out there. What would I have to do to make a 6.0 gen 3 run in my gen 4 truck?
-gen 3 ecu.
-throttle cable
What else??
I assume I'd leave the e38 in place to run the dash gauges ?
Anyone done this?
"when I first drained the pan is say about a cup of water came out first !"
Optimistic? That only says the oil and water have separated from standing.
And, you don't clean threads w/ a tap. You use a thread chaser. A tap may cut out good threads, reducing engagement.
Optimistic? That only says the oil and water have separated from standing.
And, you don't clean threads w/ a tap. You use a thread chaser. A tap may cut out good threads, reducing engagement.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Alberta Canada
I should clarify... I didn't use a 'tap' I use the old head bolts which i grounded a notch in- that was recommended to me.
Would it be possible to run the 3rd gen engine with the 3rd gen ecu? Then leave the Crank sensor alone?
Oil in wastegate. I'm not 100% sure. I have crank case pressure vented to a catch can- then I used the Moroso crank case evacuation unit- which is a pipe with a valve angled into my exhaust after the turbo - idea being create vacuum from the van to geetnpressure from building up, I may remove that completely and see if it keeps my waste gate dry...?
I wasn't really 100% sure on what to do with the crank case pressure and the old pcv system. I plugged the old pcv and vented crank case pressure from top of valve covers into a catch can, then obviously into the Moroso unit which should be pulling vacuum from the exhaust- at low rpm, which Is all theory. What have some of you guys done wth crank case pressure set ups?
Would it be possible to run the 3rd gen engine with the 3rd gen ecu? Then leave the Crank sensor alone?
Oil in wastegate. I'm not 100% sure. I have crank case pressure vented to a catch can- then I used the Moroso crank case evacuation unit- which is a pipe with a valve angled into my exhaust after the turbo - idea being create vacuum from the van to geetnpressure from building up, I may remove that completely and see if it keeps my waste gate dry...?
I wasn't really 100% sure on what to do with the crank case pressure and the old pcv system. I plugged the old pcv and vented crank case pressure from top of valve covers into a catch can, then obviously into the Moroso unit which should be pulling vacuum from the exhaust- at low rpm, which Is all theory. What have some of you guys done wth crank case pressure set ups?
The OP ran his car hard for 4 pulls and then parked it for winter. When I pulled my engine apart shortly after, I found water in odd places. I'd start with a leak down test first. This is going to tell you a lot about your motor. Then go from there. Or report back...
Good luck.