I found a guy that will build me a custom twin turbo setup for my car. I was just wondering how much money you guys think a full kit would run? For Turbo's, intercooler, waste gates, Fuel pump and injectors, and all the needed plumbing? I drive a 2000 Camaro SS thanks for the help.

 

prolly 7-8 grand

 

That seems to about right to me. The Incon twin kits had about that much in them even though they charged a lot less.

Gary

 

How about a single Turbo kit? would it be cheeper?

 

Cut out a couple hundred bucks for the wastegate and you only need one downpipe, but it doesn't make it a whole lot cheaper.

FWIW, if you know how to weld and fabricate you can put together the whole setup for a lot less than 8 grand. In fact, i'm working on a home made twin setup for my wifes car as we speak. Twin Master Power 62-1 P-trim turbos (1200 total), 2 tial 44mm gates (800 total), big air/air cooler I got used (800), turbo tech 304SS headers were 1400 but you can build a set for less than that, downpipes are gonna be like 500, and then another 300 to build the charge piping. For about 5000 we have a complete twin kit that will easily pound out 1000+ RWHP. Most shops take you to the cleaners when it comes to things like turbo kits.

 

Another thing... Look into the parts classifieds for imports. ESP dsm's I bought things like external gates and blow off valves cheap used.

I'd go with two tial wastegates and atleast one tial blow off valve. TIAL is the only brand I would recomend for any system moving alot of air and or PSI.

If you are running alot of boost with twins you just might need two TIAL blow off valves so you don't get compressor surge when you let off the throttle... I have never seen a turbo DSM or Supra for that matter that needed more than one TIAL blow off valve... Two 56trim Gt40's run in their efficiency range (high psi) would probably need two.. Two 60-1's one should cut it.

When the throttle closes all that air needs somewhere to vent or else the turbo pumps against a brick wall. Even modded diesels with twins or big singles are adding them despite the lack of a throttle plate due to the high pressures they run at WOT. These guys were actually shearing shafts not just shattering comp wheels... These use a solenoid to switch intake pressure off an on to the valve... On any gas engine a vac line from the mani behind the throttle just connects to the BOV. The throttle closes and the mani pressure drops and no longer holds the valve shut against the intake pipe pressure then whoosh... and your turbo is happily in one piece... Also the faster and easier you blow off the less lag you have when you get on it again... I noticed this when I went from a greddy BOV to a TIAL....

IMHO I'd DIY.... Honestly I think I have seen some shorty 4-1 engine swap headers that if mounted backwards I swear could put a turbo in the right spot. Then just go to a performance diesel shop and get mandrel bent aluminum to do a CAI for the twins and a nice Mandrel downpipe to the duals.... I'd go with a minimum of 3" mandrel bends and a magnaflow or magnaflow like built muffler. I ran a single PTE out a 3" system on a 2.0 above 25psi.... It worked but the really fast cars ran 3.5. (8-9 sec 4 bangers). So for 10-15 psi dual 3" would be fine. Once you stick a turbo on a header or exh mani it does'nt matter how big you go but you can go too small.. The spinning turbine wheel keeps spinning between exhaust pulses and scavenges more than tuned equal length headers on a NA. Also the less pressure on the back side of the turbine the eaiser it spins (quicker spool) you also have better contol of boost... No boost creep.... I know a sh&t load about turbo tech... It will be a while before I have apply it to two four cylinders connected to one crank (v8)..... It's just doing the same thing twice that is all..

Ball bearing turbos are spendy... They spool a bit quicker all things equal.. same wheels and housings. The only problem is when you give them too much oil or dirty oil. They are picky... With the amount of displacement and enough low end torque to light em up pre-spool Id forgo them on a v8 and run a standard 360 bushing turbo and feed it all the oil it can take...

PTE ought to be able help you pick the right units for what you want to do.

 

Lets be correct about this statement. Take all the time you have invested into your system and asign a dollar value to it. Custom shops are not charity organizations, they have the right to make money on the services that they provide.

Andrew

 

100% agree with that. Sure you can buy the stuff for a kit for $xxx dollars, but unless you know how to fabricate,install,improvise, the time and hassle for the vast majority of people wouldn't be worth it. Also even if you do one little thing wrong and blow up your motor, you just screwed the pooch on whatever money you thought you were saving.

Also I doubt very highly any of the experienced tuners out there would lay a hand on a home built kit.

 

Figure $7,500 - $10,000 for a turn-key TT solution. IMHO, it's worth spending a little extra to get a proven kit.

Mark

 

Huh! Turn key.......

99.999% of what determines if it goes holy-cow or ker-pow is all in the setup (not design) of the kit, engine preperation (comp ratio-cams etc), fuel delivery and timing (PCM programming)...


DIY your own kit with the help of someone who has spent tons of time setting up and tuning a turbo car then spend the extra money left over and have a pro dyno tune it.

Anyone starting from square one in regards to turbos.. IMHO is better off DIY their own kit and pro tuning than DIY tuning a premade kit.

If anything get the custom cast 4-1 turbo manifolds from LPE and two PTE turbos... A spearco air-air or air to water intercooler, a small amount of 3" alum mandrel to mount big K&N conicals low in the front bumper. A little 3" ss to connect the turbine housing to the cats.... Mine air filter went where my SMIC (factory side mount intercooler) used to live... Worked Awsome since it was isolated from engine bay heat and cleaned up the look of the bay...



I made my own short route FMIC (front mount intercooler piping). I clocked (rotated... easy to do) the compressor outlet straight down and connecected a mandrel 90 to it.. The pipe goes over and around the driverside of the radiator, accross the IC then around the pass side of the radiator to the throttle body... On the upper pipe I have a blow off valve then a GM 3.5" MAF sensor...

Run your MAF in a blow thru configuration... Post turbo and post blow off valve... Otherwise it will run rich when it kicks open. On stock turbo cars they are at the airfilter and the valve dumps between the filter and maf therefore a closed loop... With twins on a V8 the only way is one MAF very close to the throttle body.. Otherwise you'd need to configure a ECU to run on two MAF's...


As for wastegates... Check this out...

http://www.buschurracing.com/Conquest1.html
"BR650 internally gated turbocharger"

What I ran was a "BR580"... In reality it is just a PTE SCM61 which I bought from PTE the same place BR buys them from... I payed about $800 for a turbo that with the right supporting modifications can and did produce over 600 crank HP on two liters... It worked just fine with the internal gate.. An external gate is harder to plumb and costs about $200 or so and a TT v8 would need two... Just get a pair of turbos with a big exhaust housing and large internal wastegates and they should have no problem....

Id recomend AGP over for an internal gate because they use a different turbine housing... but for Sy-Ty, GN and custom one off stuff they do more of it.

I have the PTE version of this (untill the car sells) http://www.agpturbo.com/customer/pro...&cat=72&page=1

Now get two of the AGP version with the biggest bullseye housing made and port it a bit... That 4000 rpm full boost is with 2.0 liters blowing into it not 3.0 like each would see in a v8... It will spool alot sooner and I don't think you will run out of flow on the top end. Thats because I don't think too many of you have the valvetrain to run at or above 10k rpm.... Figure out the CFM of a 16 valve engine 4 cylinder 2.0 and I bet its moving every bit as much air (if not more depending on head work) than a a 3.0 8 valve around 6500... Which is what each twin thinks its bolted to.. Simply put you just might see me with mitsu flanges welded to shorty 4-1's on a chev motor with a a RS65 on each... I'll Just connect a tubular o2 housing to the turbo and run a manual boost controller... Spool will be well under 3000 RPM and power output in the 1200hp range easily...


Heck you could have a ball with just two stock GM sy-ty turbos with ported stock gates on any gen of small block for your first forced induction project...

http://www.precisionte.com/chevy.php

 

I wouldn't run small T3 housings with internal gates on an LS1. Too much exhaust flow, internal gates simply cannot bypass enough exhaust on a bigger set of twins to keep the boost low.

 

Key word bigger turbo at low boost......

That is the biggest mistake I have seen with modified turbo cars. A given turbo has a given efficiency range... Just because a turbo with X comp wheel makes insane power at 25psi does'nt mean it wont get beat by a smaller turbo at 15psi... because it just is'nt designed to be efficient at that pressure ratio...

The housings I'm talking about may have garret components attatched to them but they are both custom cast... The bullseye has a better design and a much better wastegate than the PTE....


Mitsu Flange

http://www.bullseye-power.com/produc...products_id=35

T4 Flange


http://www.bullseye-power.com/produc...products_id=37

It's kinda like Motown and dart small blocks with these housings... They may fit and function like the stocker but they sure are'nt the same thing...


Guess what there is a T3 flange too... The rest of the housing is identical on all three except for the inlet flange.... Outlet flanges are are mitsu bolt pattern on all three... 2g DSM o2 housings are ok ported and a dime a dozen.. Tubular O2 housings run more but flow beyond the limits of the turbo and are readily available for less time and money spent fabing custom piping for an external gate system.... You'd probably just need one 90 and one 3" flex section per downpipe coming off of these things...

I was sold on the internals will never work good theory too.... Untill I upgraded to a bigger turbo... a 56trim that I got a deal on with an internal gate. I tried it as delivered and it controlled boost just fine.. So I sold my ext gate setup.... As technology progresses internal gates improved... And when VGT becomes economically viable there will be no gates..


Basically if the turbo can move 65lbs a min thru a single cylinder head covering 4 cylinders and out its turbine housing it will do the same thing when doubled up on a V8.

Do the math... 2000cc's at 9-10k rpm with a very high VE due to an already awsome 4valve cyl head that recieved alot of work. Vs 3000cc or so at 6500 with a head 2 valve cyl head..... If you don't believe me I pull up 4g63 flowbench data and dyno datalogs showing just how much air that thing is taking in.... I have already seen data on various builds of SBC's, LTX's and LSX's.... I know I can get a A/R turbine housing that is big enough in these custom castings... The reduced redline makes up for the increased static displacement of these turbos.... Honestly I'm bored with DSMs which aren't really imports anyway.... I'm thinking the replacement for displacement goes better when you bolt it to some more displacement..... They are only so much fun seperately...

 

V8_DSM_V8again - These look like the same turbine housings on these turbos. I was searching for turbos with big internal gates and found this site.

http://www.extremeturbo.com/

 

They look like the bullseye housing to me..

Now that they are running a full garret center cartridge that brand is Ok...

Their original turbos with the mitsu cartridge, large wheels and even their thrust bearing were problematic... read wore out and sucked...



IMHO id give forced performance and/or AGP a call...