Has anyone tried the FItech 70050/70051
09-19-2017, 11:09 PM
#164
I got nothing! Haven't heard back yet so I'll email him and see whats up. Been mocking the new turbo setup on a spare 5.3 and have some clearance issues so sending it back for an updated crossover design. Once I get the new stuff and mock up the car will be on stands and I'll be pulling it all apart again. I will be doing the Fitech install at the same time.
All 3 bar should be the same tho if you think about it. I would leave the 3 bar setting alone and just use that with the GM 3 bar sensor. Normally if you were to run 2 bar or less worth of boost I would say run the correct sensor(and OS system) for the amount of boost. Reason being you loose resolution the higher the BAR rating if you run lower boost. My only experience is the 2 bar OS in HP tuners but if I remember correctly they said you loose the sensor resolution in a 3 bar (GM brick style). Since the sensor is only capable of .5v - 4.5v that means your cramming 14.7 more psi worth of boost in the same sensor voltage so something has to give. Basically don't run a 3 bar sensor if a 2 bar will do. But honestly with this system and what I "saw" in the Fitech PCM tuning tables I don't think the resolution is even there! So theres no point in trying to run any sensor besides the one they have it already preset to. I mean the stock LS9 GM supercharged cars run very high vacuum at idle and have a large swing in vacuum to boost values/RPM so if they designed a 3 bar sensor with good resolution (enough for a EPA cert supercharged v8) to be pounded at just about every situation you can think of its probably just fine for our fair weather cars that we beat on lol. Basically what I'm saying is just run the LS9 sensor and be done with it. They are the same sensor they give you in the 500 & 750hp kits and they don't "have" to be boosted. It should run just fine in NA mode as well. The Boost (MAP capability) is just there if you need it or if it "happens" to go into that range
. Basically a motor or PCM doesn't know its going to see boost before it does... it just senses boost if the sensor is capable of reading it and if the tables are available it will adjust accordingly. I figure they give up all the resolution (goes up in 50kpa increments vs normal 5kpa) as the WB02 is just going to adjust for commanded AFR in boost anyways. So the resolution doesn't really matter if you think about it. The 5kpa increments in the VE vs RPM table on a 3 bar setup is only really important on an open loop tuning situation to get the tune dialed in. Once its in the closed loop tuning will take over and adjust those values a good bit to get you dialed in to the commanded AFR. Even then the stock 02 sensors are narrow band style so they are really only good at getting Stoich values so your basically on your own (VE table at WOT anyways). Since the Fitech system uses much more accurate WB02s it can actually read 9.99 - 21:1 AFR and thus adjust accordingly and since its always in "closed loop" you never have to worry about the tables anyways. So I assume the Fitech PCM looks for basic MAP values in 50kpa increments and has a set AFR and just adjusts to stay there. Doesn't matter the boost or the RPM, once you go above 105kpa it knows you want 11.5:1 and the WB02 will add and remove fuel to get you on target. Since these are closed loop systems they rely heavily on the WB02s so I only really see the "lack" of resolution to be an issue if you got stranded with a suddenly dead WB02. But I assume there are "learned" fuel tables that we just don't have access to and I did read in the manual that they have a built in "limp" mode if something was to happen you could get it home (like a dead sensor).
So heres where I'm at:
1.) Wire it up (plug everything in).
2.) Put the GM LS9 3 BAR MAP sensor in it (doesn't matter if its NA or boosted as long as its under 30psi I think is the limit of the PCM tuning and not the sensor itself)
3.) Wire the fuel pump for 100% duty cycle at 58psi, Fitech harness sends out 12v signal so just use it to trigger a standard relay fed off the battery)
4.) hook vacuum/boost to fuel pressure regulator
5.) Set the settings to your engine specs, Cam as well.
6.) Crank it over and let the WB02 do everything else
Only additions would be if you boosting to go in and set the AFR for boosted regions an adjust timing down. Most will run NA timing up to 6psi and then reduce 1-2* for every 1psi of boost after that.
I have high hopes for this system but we shall see. I ran a FAST EZEFI 2.0 1200hp TB setup on a 51BBF and it ran flawlessly and its basically a self tuning WB02 system just like this. Best part was setup was easy and you just turned the key and went and it just learned.
All 3 bar should be the same tho if you think about it. I would leave the 3 bar setting alone and just use that with the GM 3 bar sensor. Normally if you were to run 2 bar or less worth of boost I would say run the correct sensor(and OS system) for the amount of boost. Reason being you loose resolution the higher the BAR rating if you run lower boost. My only experience is the 2 bar OS in HP tuners but if I remember correctly they said you loose the sensor resolution in a 3 bar (GM brick style). Since the sensor is only capable of .5v - 4.5v that means your cramming 14.7 more psi worth of boost in the same sensor voltage so something has to give. Basically don't run a 3 bar sensor if a 2 bar will do. But honestly with this system and what I "saw" in the Fitech PCM tuning tables I don't think the resolution is even there! So theres no point in trying to run any sensor besides the one they have it already preset to. I mean the stock LS9 GM supercharged cars run very high vacuum at idle and have a large swing in vacuum to boost values/RPM so if they designed a 3 bar sensor with good resolution (enough for a EPA cert supercharged v8) to be pounded at just about every situation you can think of its probably just fine for our fair weather cars that we beat on lol. Basically what I'm saying is just run the LS9 sensor and be done with it. They are the same sensor they give you in the 500 & 750hp kits and they don't "have" to be boosted. It should run just fine in NA mode as well. The Boost (MAP capability) is just there if you need it or if it "happens" to go into that range
. Basically a motor or PCM doesn't know its going to see boost before it does... it just senses boost if the sensor is capable of reading it and if the tables are available it will adjust accordingly. I figure they give up all the resolution (goes up in 50kpa increments vs normal 5kpa) as the WB02 is just going to adjust for commanded AFR in boost anyways. So the resolution doesn't really matter if you think about it. The 5kpa increments in the VE vs RPM table on a 3 bar setup is only really important on an open loop tuning situation to get the tune dialed in. Once its in the closed loop tuning will take over and adjust those values a good bit to get you dialed in to the commanded AFR. Even then the stock 02 sensors are narrow band style so they are really only good at getting Stoich values so your basically on your own (VE table at WOT anyways). Since the Fitech system uses much more accurate WB02s it can actually read 9.99 - 21:1 AFR and thus adjust accordingly and since its always in "closed loop" you never have to worry about the tables anyways. So I assume the Fitech PCM looks for basic MAP values in 50kpa increments and has a set AFR and just adjusts to stay there. Doesn't matter the boost or the RPM, once you go above 105kpa it knows you want 11.5:1 and the WB02 will add and remove fuel to get you on target. Since these are closed loop systems they rely heavily on the WB02s so I only really see the "lack" of resolution to be an issue if you got stranded with a suddenly dead WB02. But I assume there are "learned" fuel tables that we just don't have access to and I did read in the manual that they have a built in "limp" mode if something was to happen you could get it home (like a dead sensor). So heres where I'm at:
1.) Wire it up (plug everything in).
2.) Put the GM LS9 3 BAR MAP sensor in it (doesn't matter if its NA or boosted as long as its under 30psi I think is the limit of the PCM tuning and not the sensor itself)
3.) Wire the fuel pump for 100% duty cycle at 58psi, Fitech harness sends out 12v signal so just use it to trigger a standard relay fed off the battery)
4.) hook vacuum/boost to fuel pressure regulator
5.) Set the settings to your engine specs, Cam as well.
6.) Crank it over and let the WB02 do everything else
Only additions would be if you boosting to go in and set the AFR for boosted regions an adjust timing down. Most will run NA timing up to 6psi and then reduce 1-2* for every 1psi of boost after that.
I have high hopes for this system but we shall see. I ran a FAST EZEFI 2.0 1200hp TB setup on a 51BBF and it ran flawlessly and its basically a self tuning WB02 system just like this. Best part was setup was easy and you just turned the key and went and it just learned.
09-24-2017, 10:15 PM
#165
Started my harness and pcm install. Had to remove all the old stuff and the supercharger/exhaust and swap back to stock accessory brackets. Installed NNBS intake with 92mm WARR TB and custom fuel rails.
Got my harness 80% run. I still need to hook up the positive and negatives and some of the connections and mount the PCM. But the Engine side is all run and connected. Still need to swap over the TPS and IAC and plug those in. On my setup the Engine coolant temp plug and TPS/IAC/IAT connections but they are rather short and fitting around the alternator was not hard but also not easy. IAT will not reach my sensor in the top of the intake behind the TB. So I ordered a 12” IAT harness extension and that should be good. So far the harness is working out and have no real complaints besides the IAT length but they design these around the sheetmetal intakes so I knew things like this would come up. Going to probably mount the PCM on the pass side firewall where the OE was which means I’m going to have a good bit of excess harness I’ll have to loop up or something. It’s a street car that goes to shows but I don’t expect to ever win so not super worried about it being exact length/tucked in. Hope to have the turbo system remaining parts by the end of the week so I can start mocking up and figuring out the 02 sensor placement etc.
Got my harness 80% run. I still need to hook up the positive and negatives and some of the connections and mount the PCM. But the Engine side is all run and connected. Still need to swap over the TPS and IAC and plug those in. On my setup the Engine coolant temp plug and TPS/IAC/IAT connections but they are rather short and fitting around the alternator was not hard but also not easy. IAT will not reach my sensor in the top of the intake behind the TB. So I ordered a 12” IAT harness extension and that should be good. So far the harness is working out and have no real complaints besides the IAT length but they design these around the sheetmetal intakes so I knew things like this would come up. Going to probably mount the PCM on the pass side firewall where the OE was which means I’m going to have a good bit of excess harness I’ll have to loop up or something. It’s a street car that goes to shows but I don’t expect to ever win so not super worried about it being exact length/tucked in. Hope to have the turbo system remaining parts by the end of the week so I can start mocking up and figuring out the 02 sensor placement etc.
09-25-2017, 07:40 AM
#167
Any of you guy's on Facebook?? I wasnt much but starting to use it quite a bit. There is a page dedicated to 70050 and all these latest units. Its called "FITECH ULTIMATE LS USERS" and there are a lot of people posting about these kits.
Just tought it could be of interest to some of you wanting to talk about the kits some more.
Lead.
Just tought it could be of interest to some of you wanting to talk about the kits some more.
Lead.
09-25-2017, 09:21 AM
#168
That's interesting and good to know, thanks for posting about it.
It is a closed group that they (FiTech) administrates and you need to be approved to join. I requested and was approved in five minutes.
There are many posts and most are replied tom what appears to be various FiTech people. They certainly seem to respond quicker and in better detail and/or with more accuracy than calling or emailing them. I would imagine they do this because everybody sees every post and response.
I wonder if posts about problems or complaints get deleted?
It is a closed group that they (FiTech) administrates and you need to be approved to join. I requested and was approved in five minutes.
There are many posts and most are replied tom what appears to be various FiTech people. They certainly seem to respond quicker and in better detail and/or with more accuracy than calling or emailing them. I would imagine they do this because everybody sees every post and response.
I wonder if posts about problems or complaints get deleted?
Facebook Post
Last edited by Paul Bell; 09-25-2017 at 11:32 AM.
09-25-2017, 09:45 AM
#170
Well see lol, I joined and called the sheetmetal intakes $hit... so well see if it gets deleted.
One guy is running 6psi turbo through his and said it runs great. Put down like 368rwhp at 6psi on a stock 6.0 which is decent i guess.
One guy is running 6psi turbo through his and said it runs great. Put down like 368rwhp at 6psi on a stock 6.0 which is decent i guess.
09-26-2017, 06:35 PM
#171
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I don't think that's decent on 6psi. Very mild build 6.0 make about a little over 300 easy. mine made almost 500, but has bolt ons. 6psi I would think it would add at least 70- 80 hp easy. could be wrong, as I want to go with the kit but with a Pro charger D1SC. all in tuning.
09-26-2017, 07:25 PM
#172
It was in a truck application so I’m sure drivetrain losses are higher.
A stock 6.0 puts out about 330hp rated by GM let’s say, 20% drivetrain losses = 66hp loss or about 267hp at the wheels. He’s gained 100hp at the wheels with 6psi which is only good for about 40% increase in power. 330hp + 40% = 132hp, 330 + 132 = 462 at the crank. 462 - 20% = 92hp which is about 370hp at the wheels which is about on track with his Dyno results. A cam would be worth 100hp or crank up the boost to 12-15psi and hell see a bunch more power.
Supercharger is fun no doubt but I’m swapping my centri out for a turbo. Supercharger require power to turn so my supercharger was eating 50hp at full boost, other superchargera can be more or less efficient and it only gets worse the more PSI you generate. I’m more interested at 12psi at 2500-3k vs 12psi st 6000-6500 which a supercharger is linear and only rises with rpm. Superchargers are more predictable and easier to tune as they are repeatable in the tune and have a trend. Turbos hit unexpected and can be more difficult to tune. I’m sure you will be happy either way and if the FItech does what it says it will do then I’m happy forking out another $800’for another system to control my other turbo or supercharger 5.3.
A stock 6.0 puts out about 330hp rated by GM let’s say, 20% drivetrain losses = 66hp loss or about 267hp at the wheels. He’s gained 100hp at the wheels with 6psi which is only good for about 40% increase in power. 330hp + 40% = 132hp, 330 + 132 = 462 at the crank. 462 - 20% = 92hp which is about 370hp at the wheels which is about on track with his Dyno results. A cam would be worth 100hp or crank up the boost to 12-15psi and hell see a bunch more power.
Supercharger is fun no doubt but I’m swapping my centri out for a turbo. Supercharger require power to turn so my supercharger was eating 50hp at full boost, other superchargera can be more or less efficient and it only gets worse the more PSI you generate. I’m more interested at 12psi at 2500-3k vs 12psi st 6000-6500 which a supercharger is linear and only rises with rpm. Superchargers are more predictable and easier to tune as they are repeatable in the tune and have a trend. Turbos hit unexpected and can be more difficult to tune. I’m sure you will be happy either way and if the FItech does what it says it will do then I’m happy forking out another $800’for another system to control my other turbo or supercharger 5.3.
09-26-2017, 10:15 PM
#173
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the Dyno we use seems like most LS1 we see Dyno a hair over 300 at the wheels, GM has been know to be conservative on the hp rating. Trucks might be a little less. We've done SBE 5.3 over 1000 hp mark now on turbos and even a few LS 6:71 BDS blowers, they make stupid tq and hp at low pulls lol.
What we've seen on the FAST, and the Fitech (carb) they all can get the right AFR while driving and idling at times. It's the start up and stop and go on the throttle, the transition area. That will still need some tuning. Fast was very sensitive to vacuum and needed at least 10", when we 1st talked to Fitech last year they said they could do it with 5" on self tuning but now talking to them they are telling me 8" with at least 10" being optimum. So on a mild build I do believe it's going to be great as a self tuning setup just like the Fast. The shop has done now over 15 Fast setups and looking at the Fitech for the cost..We mostly use HP tuners and with great success but just not easy for the average guy to use and understand.
I'm just waiting to see how it works with the auto's. want to take out my glide and put back in my 4l60e, miss my OD
What we've seen on the FAST, and the Fitech (carb) they all can get the right AFR while driving and idling at times. It's the start up and stop and go on the throttle, the transition area. That will still need some tuning. Fast was very sensitive to vacuum and needed at least 10", when we 1st talked to Fitech last year they said they could do it with 5" on self tuning but now talking to them they are telling me 8" with at least 10" being optimum. So on a mild build I do believe it's going to be great as a self tuning setup just like the Fast. The shop has done now over 15 Fast setups and looking at the Fitech for the cost..We mostly use HP tuners and with great success but just not easy for the average guy to use and understand.
I'm just waiting to see how it works with the auto's. want to take out my glide and put back in my 4l60e, miss my OD
09-26-2017, 10:36 PM
#174
Understood, I agree that GM is conservative on the output numbers and typically will do more. However we don’t know the specs on the Engine, Dyno, and tune. Could haven been running really conservative timing, or running into knock due to **** gas or something else.
Yea OD is mandatory! I never liked the electronic autos or TBs, give me cable TB and old school Tv cable tranny any day.
I just mocked up my turbo system and looks like I’m going to have to make some changes... just slows me down alittle I guess.
Yea OD is mandatory! I never liked the electronic autos or TBs, give me cable TB and old school Tv cable tranny any day.
I just mocked up my turbo system and looks like I’m going to have to make some changes... just slows me down alittle I guess.
09-27-2017, 10:01 AM
#177
So heres where I'm at:
1.) Wire it up (plug everything in).
2.) Put the GM LS9 3 BAR MAP sensor in it (doesn't matter if its NA or boosted as long as its under 30psi I think is the limit of the PCM tuning and not the sensor itself)
3.) Wire the fuel pump for 100% duty cycle at 58psi, Fitech harness sends out 12v signal so just use it to trigger a standard relay fed off the battery)
4.) hook vacuum/boost to fuel pressure regulator
5.) Set the settings to your engine specs, Cam as well.
6.) Crank it over and let the WB02 do everything else
Only additions would be if you boosting to go in and set the AFR for boosted regions an adjust timing down. Most will run NA timing up to 6psi and then reduce 1-2* for every 1psi of boost after that.
1.) Wire it up (plug everything in).
2.) Put the GM LS9 3 BAR MAP sensor in it (doesn't matter if its NA or boosted as long as its under 30psi I think is the limit of the PCM tuning and not the sensor itself)
3.) Wire the fuel pump for 100% duty cycle at 58psi, Fitech harness sends out 12v signal so just use it to trigger a standard relay fed off the battery)
4.) hook vacuum/boost to fuel pressure regulator
5.) Set the settings to your engine specs, Cam as well.
6.) Crank it over and let the WB02 do everything else
Only additions would be if you boosting to go in and set the AFR for boosted regions an adjust timing down. Most will run NA timing up to 6psi and then reduce 1-2* for every 1psi of boost after that.
All this talk qnd over thinking is starting to make me want to go the Holley route so much more. I mean, if im gonna break my head, i want the system thats easy and has the capacity to be doing everything well and that has help at the end of the line...
Nicely put 'BlackBird.
Lead.
09-27-2017, 10:22 AM
#178
EXACTLY what ive seen done and work with the FiTech. It was designed to be simple and work the complications OUT, so why start to make it complicated!!!
All this talk qnd over thinking is starting to make me want to go the Holley route so much more. I mean, if im gonna break my head, i want the system thats easy and has the capacity to be doing everything well and that has help at the end of the line...
Nicely put 'BlackBird.
Lead.
All this talk qnd over thinking is starting to make me want to go the Holley route so much more. I mean, if im gonna break my head, i want the system thats easy and has the capacity to be doing everything well and that has help at the end of the line...
Nicely put 'BlackBird.
Lead.
So far I see no reason to go to holley, we are just working out the bugs with no real world data or installs. Most are just getting there kits and installing and since so much incorrect information was provided through Fitech that most dont know what they are getting till its received.
It really is a plug in, setup up and crank over kinda deal with BOOST for $800... holley can't do that.
09-27-2017, 01:23 PM
#179
Its a basic system and should do everything most need. This is designed for the normal guy who can wrench alittle and can be installed in 1 day if you really want to. Hardest part is putting in a WB02 bung if you dont have one. From what Ive seen on the FB page plenty of people are running these so it should work well. Its easy to setup, plug in and if it tunes itself theres really no work besides the initial tune setup and adjusting Idle/IAC.
So far I see no reason to go to holley, we are just working out the bugs with no real world data or installs. Most are just getting there kits and installing and since so much incorrect information was provided through Fitech that most dont know what they are getting till its received.
It really is a plug in, setup up and crank over kinda deal with BOOST for $800... holley can't do that.
So far I see no reason to go to holley, we are just working out the bugs with no real world data or installs. Most are just getting there kits and installing and since so much incorrect information was provided through Fitech that most dont know what they are getting till its received.
It really is a plug in, setup up and crank over kinda deal with BOOST for $800... holley can't do that.
Yep, like i said earlier in another post, its ashame that FITech is shooting in their own foot by not beeing on the tarmac with their customers. I wonder if its because they are missing on trained people, money to have people, lack of preparation (they should have been ready and have instruction and diagrams at least) or whatever combination it is that they are missing, but its sad... a good product that promised a lot is having a lot of people on the fence because of their own missing out on beeing ready.
Hey, at least it looks like it works, so thats at least that!!
Lead.
Edit, i was thinking of when Ridetech started, they were everywhere and Brett Voelkel the owner was online and at every possible show talking and anwsering every question thrown at him. They involved themselves and it flat out rocked. Only wish FITech did half that.
