ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Then you would have had a set of real tires on the cheap and finally get some traction

Are you really going to disagree with what I posted? Unless you have a honda sized turbo you have SOME lag from idle to say 3k, that is what I would consider the low-end since most thing of low-end as 1-3k, midrange is 3k-5k, and topend would be 5k+. I saw the argument is a turbo has more low-end grunt, which compared to an rpm based setup like a blower makes zero sense.

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I wish I could figure out how to post an email file (dyno graph). I understand what it is that you are saying, but a decently setup turbo car will spool NEARLY instantly.... and the torque will leave you with an upset stomach. Not so much with a blower car... At least in my opinion.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Thats exactly the point, no matter how "instantly" its spooling, there is NO spooling with a blower. Most dyno graphs, especially those of a stalled auto, don't really have a low-end (1-3k) since they just get converter flash unless they lock it in 1:1 on the dyno.

TT427

iTrader: (1)

Is op talking 4th gen only? Limited to centrifugal or is a screw/roots possible?

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This is true. But the miniscule time spent spooling, is more than made up by the brutal torque of a good turbo setup. Now let me say, im not talking about some car with a 1.4ar 101/98 t6 on a 4.8 (a little exaggerated but you get the point) .... something reasonably sized for tune street. Turbo cars also seems to carry better as well, does your blower car trap better than your turbo one did?

BCNUL8R

iTrader: (2)

The power of a centrifugal supercharger should be more predictable and easier to control in a traction limited street car. From a high speed roll on the free way the turbo should have an advantage though.

Whats it like racing from a dig where you have to pedal the car with a turbo? If you have to get out of the throttle and back in it to try to win a race how do the two compare then?

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This is not my car, or my video. But just thought I would leave this here

The BallSS

iTrader: (9)

Lol, nice.
I was gonna say, I don't experience much lag if any with my setup.
It comes on hard and fast which for a M6 street car is all the fun.
When the car spins or between shifts it doesn't miss a beat, it always spins in second, third depends on the surface, fourth is usually pretty safe but either way I don't wait for the power to come back on, it just flat out rips lol.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

It's amazing how everyone claims they have no lag....a stick turbo car will ALWAYS have some lag from a low rpm regardless unless you use a stupidly small turbo. An auto makes things better, because the converter lets you flash past what I would consider low-end RPM.....which circles back to my point entirely (low-end blower wins).

I haven't gotten my blower setup to the track, FL summer blows, but its not a good comparison or indication of anything anyways; turbo 6 speed 383 with a 9" vs. stock cube cam only D1SC with a stalled A4 and 10 bolt.

I had what I would consider little to no lag given my 383 c.i. and turbo cam with a 3.50 rear gear and a 6 speed with a reasonable turbo size (T76) and I STILL think the blower setup has more low-end.

PS....that vid is awful....whats the Fbody have on the hellcat, 500lbs?

2BAD4U

iTrader: (1)

I'm not talking about from a dig on a 2 step. revving it to Xxx rpm I'm talking about putting around town then rolling in to throttle at 1,500 to 2,800 roughly rpm or even punching it. it WILL lag unless you put in your clutch rev it on 2 step and let off which would be stupid on street already going 25 to 30 mph. I'm talking about punching it from light roll or just dropping a gear. You WILL have lag.

baller

yeah hellcats are over priced and slow as **** lol!!!!!!!!!!

The BallSS

iTrader: (9)

I think I'm missing a point in here some where.
If I'm putting around in town, who cares if there is lag?
If I'm rolling at 30 mph in 4th and I roll into it of course it lags but again, who cares, I'm in town putting around.
If I wanna get it on I drop a few gears and put the hammer down, no lag then.
Are we really discussing which power adder is better at 2K-3K rpm lol?

2BAD4U

iTrader: (1)

And let me say this... why do you think they make anti lag systems? Or why do people brake boost? Or why to they hit it with a shot of spray with a boost switch so when boost comes in nitrous turns off? oh yeah... Turbo lag. You have lag (especially at "low rpms) It is what it is... Blower you don't or won't have that. That's why... My turbo car went to auto and I bought then built me a Blower 6sp car. because I love rolling gears for a daily street car. and I let my turbo auto car eat at strip or street races. Not to say my blower car doesn't handle it's own on a dig street race. But on the right prepped street it won't compare to my turbo auto car. But 6sp blower car is funniest street car in my opinion. No lag and A.C is nice too. Now I know some kits or turbo systems out there allow A.C. but most don't.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Unless its a Procharger. D1 on a 364ci came into boost at ~3100RPM but didn't get over 13lbs until 6k RPM. That's about 3000RPM of "spool" to me. On the other hand a 76mm on a 364ci also comes into boost ~3000RPM, but hits whatever boost you command by ~3700RPM so only 600RPM of "spool".

BCNUL8R

iTrader: (2)

Can someone post up a dyno of an F1A procharged car with around 900 rwhp and turbo car with similar peak numbers so we can compare the graphs?

Im just curios if the bigger procharger closes the gap a little bit under the curve while comparing cars with similar peak numbers.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

You're saying your boost threshold was 3100rpms? Like I said before, I can sit in my driveway and lightly snap the throttle to 2-2500 rpms and go into positive pressure.

The BallSS

iTrader: (9)

That's where I'm at, my combo hits 12 lbs. at about 4,500 and carries out to 6,500 rpm.
I've seen guys put wastegates on centri combos to bring boost in earlier but those setups aren't too common.
A roots setup would be a different animal of course in regards to instantly generating boost but those tend to fall off up top.
I still have AC too lol.
I guess my other bone of contention regarding centri units is the couple guys I've known who've had them have had issues with them, either generating too much heat, belt slipping etc.
Both have gone to turbo setups and are running faster than before with less issues.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

There is no comparing turbo kit issues vs. blower kit issues. Everyone has some problem or another with their turbo kit:

1) Cooling issues
2) Fan don't fit or dont move enough CFM's
2) Ground clearance unless you elect to have a turbo K member
3) Melting random crap cause you have twice the piping on a turbo kit that runs near A/C lines or electrical stuff.
4) Plug access

Blowers typically have belt slip issues.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Not sure about lightly... I have to give it a healthy rev to get a positive pressure reading in the driveway. Each setup is different, this same SBE 6.0L engine has seen a Maggie, Procharger, and turbo so its a nice comparison.

However I do like the more load you put on the turbo the earlier it will build boost, rolling down the road in 4th or 5th and roll into the throttle and boost comes on much earlier. However, the Procharger is locked into RPM based boost.


I believe the F1 (and larger) units have a different trans ratio to help spool. I don't see the point of going smaller then an F1 on an LS, pretty much same airflow as a 76mm turbo.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

If you have half a brain and plan ahead you can make a turbo setup without any of those issues. My turbo setup is garage built, runs cool with a small low mount radiator, slim SPAL fans pull plenty of air, has same ground clearance as stock, hasn't melted anything, and is easy to change plugs. It was also cheaper to put together then any bolton turbo or blower kit on the market.

Blowers often have heat soak issues in addition to belt slip. Positive displacement blower guys often chase cooling issues with upgrading intercooler pumps, reservoirs, heat exchangers, etc. Then they chase tensioners and belt wrap issues, rip cut pulleys, idlers, changing crank pulleys, etc.. Blower setups often weight more as well, my 76mm was 20lbs, my 1.9L blower was over 70lbs. Plan on carrying a spare belt and tools as well, not unusual for a blower to chuck a belt.