E85 vs E98
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2013
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E85 vs E98 going to be building a 5.3 turbo(s) motor i have e85 and e98 available locally and they cost the exact same a liter for some reason. I should build my motor around the E98 for higher octane and better cooling/less detonation?
my goals are 700-800rwhp with durabililty. Will I need to run 94 pump and then inject e98 at a certain psi for this goal or would it be better/safer to just run it 100% in my tank if that makes sense?
and will semien deka 80s running e98 support that kinda power duty cycle wise or will I run out of injector?
Thanks in advance
my goals are 700-800rwhp with durabililty. Will I need to run 94 pump and then inject e98 at a certain psi for this goal or would it be better/safer to just run it 100% in my tank if that makes sense?
and will semien deka 80s running e98 support that kinda power duty cycle wise or will I run out of injector?
Thanks in advance
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From: Pittsboro, IN
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
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Thanks SVSLOW
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From: Norn Iron
What exactly is the makeup of E98 ?
Here in UK, and even more so Northern Ireland, E85 simply doesnt exist, unless you buy VP, Sonoco etc etc.
But I've heard some people say this can be used ? It states 97% ethanol, havent a clue what the other 3% is though.
Then mix with pump fuel as required ? I did buy a few bottles of it, and it has a fair alcohol type smell off it, very clear liquid.
http://www.bioethanolfires.ie/produc...anol-fuel.html
http://www.bioethanolfires.ie/produc...anol-fuel.html
Is ethanol just ethanol ? http://www.fanola.com/
Here in UK, and even more so Northern Ireland, E85 simply doesnt exist, unless you buy VP, Sonoco etc etc.
But I've heard some people say this can be used ? It states 97% ethanol, havent a clue what the other 3% is though.
Then mix with pump fuel as required ? I did buy a few bottles of it, and it has a fair alcohol type smell off it, very clear liquid.
http://www.bioethanolfires.ie/produc...anol-fuel.html
http://www.bioethanolfires.ie/produc...anol-fuel.html
Is ethanol just ethanol ? http://www.fanola.com/
I don't k ow what your fuel prices are over there in the U.K. But e85 is like $1.50-.65 a gallon here. That stuff you linked would be like $10 a gallon so it's not exactly cheap. If I wasn't running e85 I'd just run aviation fuel. The private airport a couple miles down the road sells it to me for 3.50 a gallon and it's 100octane.
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From: Norn Iron
I don't k ow what your fuel prices are over there in the U.K. But e85 is like $1.50-.65 a gallon here. That stuff you linked would be like $10 a gallon so it's not exactly cheap. If I wasn't running e85 I'd just run aviation fuel. The private airport a couple miles down the road sells it to me for 3.50 a gallon and it's 100octane.
Average for 93 is around £1.30 per litre ( 91 around £1.20 per litre )
The likes of VP MS109 for example, around £5.25 per litre. I think the VP E85 is a little cheaper.
I see a UK supplier of Sonoco E85R offering it for around £4 per litre for a 25L drum ( £3.60 per litre if you buy 200L )
E85 is not available at pumps anywhere in UK.
So the ethanol in the links at around £2.40 per litre, is cheaper than any of the above options, but yes still more expensive than pump fuel, almost double..
Just not sure if all ethanols are the same, or if there would be any issues mixing it with normal petrol to create a mix to try.
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TECH Junkie
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Fuel prices here are a ******* rip off.
Average for 93 is around £1.30 per litre ( 91 around £1.20 per litre )
The likes of VP MS109 for example, around £5.25 per litre. I think the VP E85 is a little cheaper.
I see a UK supplier of Sonoco E85R offering it for around £4 per litre for a 25L drum ( £3.60 per litre if you buy 200L )
E85 is not available at pumps anywhere in UK.
So the ethanol in the links at around £2.40 per litre, is cheaper than any of the above options, but yes still more expensive than pump fuel, almost double..
Just not sure if all ethanols are the same, or if there would be any issues mixing it with normal petrol to create a mix to try.
Average for 93 is around £1.30 per litre ( 91 around £1.20 per litre )
The likes of VP MS109 for example, around £5.25 per litre. I think the VP E85 is a little cheaper.
I see a UK supplier of Sonoco E85R offering it for around £4 per litre for a 25L drum ( £3.60 per litre if you buy 200L )
E85 is not available at pumps anywhere in UK.
So the ethanol in the links at around £2.40 per litre, is cheaper than any of the above options, but yes still more expensive than pump fuel, almost double..
Just not sure if all ethanols are the same, or if there would be any issues mixing it with normal petrol to create a mix to try.
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From: Norn Iron
I don't mean this in a negative way whatsoever, but I get a kick out of our fellow enthusiasts from across the pond. I was reading your response, I thought " I have absolutely no clue about their measurement system OR their monetary equivalent to the dollar". But as long as he's into cars..... rock on.
With exchange rates and general costs...it can be hard to compare across the water.
At todays rates, $1 is around UK £0.75
So as you can see, that makes fuel pretty ******* expensive....Although in reality "fuel" is cheap, it's just taxed like ****. Some 80% of the price of a litre of fuel is tax.
I priced in litres as that's how it's priced at the pump, 1 UK Gallon is 4.55 litres, whereas US is only 4 litres for some reason. 1 litre is near enough a quart.
So pump fuel per US Gallon, around £5.20, say $7 per gallon ?
With rates of course that varies though, and I'm sure other costs and living expenses, wages etc vary too. Race fuels tend to be around 3x that price, some higher.
I've never understood that, seeing as it is not sold as road fuel, it should not carry the same level of taxation which makes normal fuel so expensive, so race fuel should be cheap ! Other than it having to be imported from places like the US.
Hence why I always use pump+meth !!! lol but always curious about other fuels and options if there could be genuine gains to be had.
E85 did make an appearance maybe 9-10 years or so ago, well in England etc it did. But it was more expensive than regular fuel. The government offered no support whatsoever, and eventually the one supply chain who sold it withdrew it. No sense having tanks full of fuel nobody is buying. It was never available here where I live.
Even flex fuel vehicles that could use it.....I can barely even think of any. Maybe Saab offered some for a while.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
With exchange rates and general costs...it can be hard to compare across the water.
At todays rates, $1 is around UK £0.75
So as you can see, that makes fuel pretty ******* expensive....Although in reality "fuel" is cheap, it's just taxed like ****. Some 80% of the price of a litre of fuel is tax.
I priced in litres as that's how it's priced at the pump, 1 UK Gallon is 4.55 litres, whereas US is only 4 litres for some reason. 1 litre is near enough a quart.
So pump fuel per US Gallon, around £5.20, say $7 per gallon ?
With rates of course that varies though, and I'm sure other costs and living expenses, wages etc vary too. Race fuels tend to be around 3x that price, some higher.
I've never understood that, seeing as it is not sold as road fuel, it should not carry the same level of taxation which makes normal fuel so expensive, so race fuel should be cheap ! Other than it having to be imported from places like the US.
Hence why I always use pump+meth !!! lol but always curious about other fuels and options if there could be genuine gains to be had.
E85 did make an appearance maybe 9-10 years or so ago, well in England etc it did. But it was more expensive than regular fuel. The government offered no support whatsoever, and eventually the one supply chain who sold it withdrew it. No sense having tanks full of fuel nobody is buying. It was never available here where I live.
Even flex fuel vehicles that could use it.....I can barely even think of any. Maybe Saab offered some for a while.
At todays rates, $1 is around UK £0.75
So as you can see, that makes fuel pretty ******* expensive....Although in reality "fuel" is cheap, it's just taxed like ****. Some 80% of the price of a litre of fuel is tax.
I priced in litres as that's how it's priced at the pump, 1 UK Gallon is 4.55 litres, whereas US is only 4 litres for some reason. 1 litre is near enough a quart.
So pump fuel per US Gallon, around £5.20, say $7 per gallon ?
With rates of course that varies though, and I'm sure other costs and living expenses, wages etc vary too. Race fuels tend to be around 3x that price, some higher.
I've never understood that, seeing as it is not sold as road fuel, it should not carry the same level of taxation which makes normal fuel so expensive, so race fuel should be cheap ! Other than it having to be imported from places like the US.
Hence why I always use pump+meth !!! lol but always curious about other fuels and options if there could be genuine gains to be had.
E85 did make an appearance maybe 9-10 years or so ago, well in England etc it did. But it was more expensive than regular fuel. The government offered no support whatsoever, and eventually the one supply chain who sold it withdrew it. No sense having tanks full of fuel nobody is buying. It was never available here where I live.
Even flex fuel vehicles that could use it.....I can barely even think of any. Maybe Saab offered some for a while.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 48
With exchange rates and general costs...it can be hard to compare across the water.
At todays rates, $1 is around UK £0.75
So as you can see, that makes fuel pretty ******* expensive....Although in reality "fuel" is cheap, it's just taxed like ****. Some 80% of the price of a litre of fuel is tax.
I priced in litres as that's how it's priced at the pump, 1 UK Gallon is 4.55 litres, whereas US is only 4 litres for some reason. 1 litre is near enough a quart.
So pump fuel per US Gallon, around £5.20, say $7 per gallon ?
With rates of course that varies though, and I'm sure other costs and living expenses, wages etc vary too. Race fuels tend to be around 3x that price, some higher.
I've never understood that, seeing as it is not sold as road fuel, it should not carry the same level of taxation which makes normal fuel so expensive, so race fuel should be cheap ! Other than it having to be imported from places like the US.
Hence why I always use pump+meth !!! lol but always curious about other fuels and options if there could be genuine gains to be had.
E85 did make an appearance maybe 9-10 years or so ago, well in England etc it did. But it was more expensive than regular fuel. The government offered no support whatsoever, and eventually the one supply chain who sold it withdrew it. No sense having tanks full of fuel nobody is buying. It was never available here where I live.
Even flex fuel vehicles that could use it.....I can barely even think of any. Maybe Saab offered some for a while.
At todays rates, $1 is around UK £0.75
So as you can see, that makes fuel pretty ******* expensive....Although in reality "fuel" is cheap, it's just taxed like ****. Some 80% of the price of a litre of fuel is tax.
I priced in litres as that's how it's priced at the pump, 1 UK Gallon is 4.55 litres, whereas US is only 4 litres for some reason. 1 litre is near enough a quart.
So pump fuel per US Gallon, around £5.20, say $7 per gallon ?
With rates of course that varies though, and I'm sure other costs and living expenses, wages etc vary too. Race fuels tend to be around 3x that price, some higher.
I've never understood that, seeing as it is not sold as road fuel, it should not carry the same level of taxation which makes normal fuel so expensive, so race fuel should be cheap ! Other than it having to be imported from places like the US.
Hence why I always use pump+meth !!! lol but always curious about other fuels and options if there could be genuine gains to be had.
E85 did make an appearance maybe 9-10 years or so ago, well in England etc it did. But it was more expensive than regular fuel. The government offered no support whatsoever, and eventually the one supply chain who sold it withdrew it. No sense having tanks full of fuel nobody is buying. It was never available here where I live.
Even flex fuel vehicles that could use it.....I can barely even think of any. Maybe Saab offered some for a while.
I really hope you are joking. The only people who benefit from corn based ethanol fuels are farmers and budget racers. The cost at the pump is only a fraction of what it should be because of farm subsidies and false "green energy" initiatives. By the time it hits the market, E85 uses more energy than it produces, while at the same time taking land away from food crops, and caps this off by driving up livestock food prices by diverting what could otherwise be used as feed into fuel. If we had something like the sugarcane ethanol used in Brazil this might be a different story. -end rant-
I really hope you are joking. The only people who benefit from corn based ethanol fuels are farmers and budget racers. The cost at the pump is only a fraction of what it should be because of farm subsidies and false "green energy" initiatives. By the time it hits the market, E85 uses more energy than it produces, while at the same time taking land away from food crops, and caps this off by driving up livestock food prices by diverting what could otherwise be used as feed into fuel. If we had something like the sugarcane ethanol used in Brazil this might be a different story. -end rant-
So what's Trump say? He is fixing everything, right? Pro or anti Ethanol?
It's $2.95 here in Oregon. Of course we are all labeled liberal.
And no one uses it.......
There is no advantage to E98. It's been proven E70 is just fine. And it is less stress on the fuel system.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2013
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And Americans are among the most obese on the planet. So it doesn't seem that we are starving because corn is going into E85.
So what's Trump say? He is fixing everything, right? Pro or anti Ethanol?
It's $2.95 here in Oregon. Of course we are all labeled liberal.
And no one uses it.......
There is no advantage to E98. It's been proven E70 is just fine. And it is less stress on the fuel system.
So what's Trump say? He is fixing everything, right? Pro or anti Ethanol?
It's $2.95 here in Oregon. Of course we are all labeled liberal.
And no one uses it.......
There is no advantage to E98. It's been proven E70 is just fine. And it is less stress on the fuel system.
So I can get E98 and E85 locally, you saying i should get the 85 or 70 winter blend instead because there's no benefit of running the 98 with it being harder on the fuel system and not boosting octane anymore than 70/85? Keep in mine it's the exact same price for 98 as it is70/85
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From: Norn Iron
Up here, at best a couple of times a year we can get a decent airfield. A few other times a year we can get an old abandoned airfield. Neither lend themselves to good times, but it's better than nothing.
Even in England etc, there are 3 proper drag strips. Santa Pod, York and Shakespeare. 2 of those are facing closure because local councils want the land to build houses on.
So when track operators are trying to bid against property developers....well that always goes one direction here. The tracks can never generate that sort of revenue, and few in charge seem to give a **** cars etc.
as for costs/earnings etc.
In general, a tank of fuel would be around £50-60 for most cars. Diesels are very popular, ie 45-50mpg or better. So you just have to make the most of the fuel you get. As for earnings, far from high. Again relative to fuel most average earnings would be in the region of £250-350 take home a week. So just one tank of fuel is a hell of a percentage of that.
But things here are more local perhaps, most would consider even a 15-20 mile journey a long one ( strange people though lol ). So lots of long journeys arent really needed or taken I guess.
But back to fuel...I've asked a few times but never really got an answer.
These guys and their videos seem to imply that ethanol higher than 50/50 really doesnt seem to yield any gains, so E70, E85...no real need ?
Is there any validity in that ?
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTuningSchool/videos
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From: Norn Iron
I really hope you are joking. The only people who benefit from corn based ethanol fuels are farmers and budget racers. The cost at the pump is only a fraction of what it should be because of farm subsidies and false "green energy" initiatives. By the time it hits the market, E85 uses more energy than it produces, while at the same time taking land away from food crops, and caps this off by driving up livestock food prices by diverting what could otherwise be used as feed into fuel. If we had something like the sugarcane ethanol used in Brazil this might be a different story. -end rant-
But yep, it does impact many other areas and probably not in a good way. But all the problems are the result of the same common denominator, too many ******* people on the planet.
I have no scientific evidence here but since the benefit of anything above E50 is small, wouldn't E85 be the better way to solely help cold starts?? Just thinking out loud.
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And Americans are among the most obese on the planet. So it doesn't seem that we are starving because corn is going into E85.
So what's Trump say? He is fixing everything, right? Pro or anti Ethanol?
It's $2.95 here in Oregon. Of course we are all labeled liberal.
And no one uses it.......
There is no advantage to E98. It's been proven E70 is just fine. And it is less stress on the fuel system.
So what's Trump say? He is fixing everything, right? Pro or anti Ethanol?
It's $2.95 here in Oregon. Of course we are all labeled liberal.
And no one uses it.......
There is no advantage to E98. It's been proven E70 is just fine. And it is less stress on the fuel system.
Last edited by gsteele; Sep 30, 2017 at 09:57 AM.
TECH Enthusiast
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You forgot about the lawmakers that passed the subsidies in the first place, they might have received a small benefit $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
I have no scientific evidence here but since the benefit of anything above E50 is small, wouldn't E85 be the better way to solely help cold starts?? Just thinking out loud.
I have no scientific evidence here but since the benefit of anything above E50 is small, wouldn't E85 be the better way to solely help cold starts?? Just thinking out loud.
I really hope you are joking. The only people who benefit from corn based ethanol fuels are farmers and budget racers. The cost at the pump is only a fraction of what it should be because of farm subsidies and false "green energy" initiatives. By the time it hits the market, E85 uses more energy than it produces, while at the same time taking land away from food crops, and caps this off by driving up livestock food prices by diverting what could otherwise be used as feed into fuel. If we had something like the sugarcane ethanol used in Brazil this might be a different story. -end rant-
ethanol---in any mixture--- is not at the pump due to some market force. it's due to government manipulation.
