Added meth and now too rich!
Added meth and now too rich! I've installed a Snow meth system. Was told with -20 blue windshield washer fluid that I would be able to use the same tune. Slightly richer with meth but ok. Now I'm finding that my afr richens .08-.09 Lambda richer. Around an .85 Lambda without meth to .76 Lambda with meth. Is this what others have experienced? I don't see how I can use the same tune and make power with meth. I would like to keep the same tune just for engine safety.
I have a 2017 C7Z06 Corvette and of course with direct injection.
I have a 2017 C7Z06 Corvette and of course with direct injection.
Last edited by Larry; Dec 23, 2018 at 10:52 AM.
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From: Norn Iron
How much mixture changes...will of course depend on how much additional fuel you are injecting relative to main fuel supply.
0.85 Lambda is pretty lean for a boosted application, unless it is very very low boost or race fuel.
0.76 lambda would be a sensible target for a moderate-high boost setup, although this could be leaner with the water/meth injection...again all dependent on quantities used, boost etc etc
0.85 Lambda is pretty lean for a boosted application, unless it is very very low boost or race fuel.
0.76 lambda would be a sensible target for a moderate-high boost setup, although this could be leaner with the water/meth injection...again all dependent on quantities used, boost etc etc
How much mixture changes...will of course depend on how much additional fuel you are injecting relative to main fuel supply.
0.85 Lambda is pretty lean for a boosted application, unless it is very very low boost or race fuel.
0.76 lambda would be a sensible target for a moderate-high boost setup, although this could be leaner with the water/meth injection...again all dependent on quantities used, boost etc etc
0.85 Lambda is pretty lean for a boosted application, unless it is very very low boost or race fuel.
0.76 lambda would be a sensible target for a moderate-high boost setup, although this could be leaner with the water/meth injection...again all dependent on quantities used, boost etc etc
I have read and was told that .84-.85 is safe for these direct injected engines. The factory EQ table even has it leaner at some rpms.
At .76 lambda my exhaust pipes get so black now. Did not before the meth so that leads me to feel that .7s is too rich. Getting a lot of kr too. I'm also running a mixture of Boostane to bump the octane to about 100. Assuming Boostane charts are accurate. And before meth I was getting almost zero kr.
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From: Norn Iron
I've never worked on a DI engine, so cant comment there, but have read some people suggest widebands may read a little different on them. How true that is....dont know.
But I guess if a factory stock motor is reading 0.85 lambda, then it should be a safe place to stay near.
As for KR....just injecting the water/meth at whatever time and quantity you are, no other changes...you're seeing this ? And have you listened with det cans or similar to confirm whether this noise is real or false ?
If boost or tuning has not changed, it would be very strange for there to be any odd noises, or indeed knock of any kind itself.
If the washer fluid is only 30% methanol, it would take a huge volume of fluid to richen the mixtures by so much. Are mixtures even across both banks ?
But I guess if a factory stock motor is reading 0.85 lambda, then it should be a safe place to stay near.
As for KR....just injecting the water/meth at whatever time and quantity you are, no other changes...you're seeing this ? And have you listened with det cans or similar to confirm whether this noise is real or false ?
If boost or tuning has not changed, it would be very strange for there to be any odd noises, or indeed knock of any kind itself.
If the washer fluid is only 30% methanol, it would take a huge volume of fluid to richen the mixtures by so much. Are mixtures even across both banks ?
I've never worked on a DI engine, so cant comment there, but have read some people suggest widebands may read a little different on them. How true that is....dont know.
But I guess if a factory stock motor is reading 0.85 lambda, then it should be a safe place to stay near.
As for KR....just injecting the water/meth at whatever time and quantity you are, no other changes...you're seeing this ? And have you listened with det cans or similar to confirm whether this noise is real or false ?
If boost or tuning has not changed, it would be very strange for there to be any odd noises, or indeed knock of any kind itself.
If the washer fluid is only 30% methanol, it would take a huge volume of fluid to richen the mixtures by so much. Are mixtures even across both banks ?
But I guess if a factory stock motor is reading 0.85 lambda, then it should be a safe place to stay near.
As for KR....just injecting the water/meth at whatever time and quantity you are, no other changes...you're seeing this ? And have you listened with det cans or similar to confirm whether this noise is real or false ?
If boost or tuning has not changed, it would be very strange for there to be any odd noises, or indeed knock of any kind itself.
If the washer fluid is only 30% methanol, it would take a huge volume of fluid to richen the mixtures by so much. Are mixtures even across both banks ?
I'm running a #6 (635 ml/min) nozzle. What Snow recommended for my power rating of about 600 rwhp. I'm only logging one bank.
Here is a snipping of my log with my HP Tuner. Kr in the graph doesn't match the chart for some reason.
Here's what I have logged for kr.
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Verdad Gallardo As I had mentioned, had hoped to run the same tune in case the meth system fails I wouldn't be too lean. No problem adding more fuel but then if I have a meth failure maybe boom! lol But for now I'm going to dial my afr in and see how much more power I get. Maybe the system is reliable.
Wow, 12.5 down to 11.2-11.5 is more than I've logged. Looks like what I am seeing is normal with this #6 nozzle.
As I had mentioned, had hoped to run the same tune in case the meth system fails I wouldn't be too lean. No problem adding more fuel but then if I have a meth failure maybe boom! lol But for now I'm going to dial my afr in and see how much more power I get. Maybe the system is reliable.
As I had mentioned, had hoped to run the same tune in case the meth system fails I wouldn't be too lean. No problem adding more fuel but then if I have a meth failure maybe boom! lol But for now I'm going to dial my afr in and see how much more power I get. Maybe the system is reliable.
My goal in the beginning by adding the system was to be able to make the power the engine is suppose to. Added power would be nice too but just not losing the power I have due to heat soak is a gain in power. Running straight water should do that. This #6 nozzle may be too large for my power level.
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From: Norn Iron
Running straight water and not re-tuning to make use of it, will pretty much always reduce power.
You need to retune and add timing ( and/or boost ) to see gains from the knock suppression abilities of the water. Assuming the engine/fuel combo was knock limited in the first place.
Possibly the only time gains might be seen without retuning, would be with very small amounts of water, and if charge temps were extremely hot.
You need to retune and add timing ( and/or boost ) to see gains from the knock suppression abilities of the water. Assuming the engine/fuel combo was knock limited in the first place.
Possibly the only time gains might be seen without retuning, would be with very small amounts of water, and if charge temps were extremely hot.
Running straight water and not re-tuning to make use of it, will pretty much always reduce power.
You need to retune and add timing ( and/or boost ) to see gains from the knock suppression abilities of the water. Assuming the engine/fuel combo was knock limited in the first place.
Possibly the only time gains might be seen without retuning, would be with very small amounts of water, and if charge temps were extremely hot.
You need to retune and add timing ( and/or boost ) to see gains from the knock suppression abilities of the water. Assuming the engine/fuel combo was knock limited in the first place.
Possibly the only time gains might be seen without retuning, would be with very small amounts of water, and if charge temps were extremely hot.
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From: Norn Iron
If you are adding meth/water to a known good running engine....it should be safe anyway.
So adding safety to a safe setup ? If the AFR's are too rich for your liking with the water/meth mix you are using or intend to use, then yes the easiest fix is to inject less liquid.
But whilst water alone can be used, throwing water into your fire will of course have negative effects. Hence some sort of W/M mix makes more sense. You can have the positive effects of injecting the liquid, without any of the real negatives of water alone on a setup where you do not intend to retune to make the most of the injection.
So adding safety to a safe setup ? If the AFR's are too rich for your liking with the water/meth mix you are using or intend to use, then yes the easiest fix is to inject less liquid.
But whilst water alone can be used, throwing water into your fire will of course have negative effects. Hence some sort of W/M mix makes more sense. You can have the positive effects of injecting the liquid, without any of the real negatives of water alone on a setup where you do not intend to retune to make the most of the injection.
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From: Norn Iron
Here's what a tuning company called Shortuning recommends: http://www.shortuning.com/
"I would purchase an E85 emulator box from DSTeck and wire it in so that when Methanol sprays it triggers E85 mode in the ECM. This will give you access to tables that you can pull fuel and add timing with. It's the safest method so that if the meth doesn't spray or build pressure then it doesn't pull fuel from the injector or add timing for the Methanol."
I have to agree with you on the complexity of his method. It was just something I read about. Probably cost big bucks to get it done if you didn't know how or had no instructions. Hopefully I can find an easier way to achieve what I want.