The Electric Turbo Camaro Project
i have looked at stuff like that, using wrecked tesla parts etc...wow that **** is expensive.
that said I'll probably be buying a nissan leaf for a daily next year, and will of course have to mod it for more power
that said I'll probably be buying a nissan leaf for a daily next year, and will of course have to mod it for more power
Both actually. But I'm not sure how you would define "near failure" for forced induction. I've yet to prove it but the numbers so far indicate that I should be able to add 100+ ft-lbs at least so 520-550 ft-lbs at the crank is definitely realistic. I agree that this is tame as far as power numbers go but for the money, I'm still getting a boosted car with performance on par with comparably sized blowers with big pulleys or what have you. The ZL1 of my model year was around 550 IIRC so I should be getting pretty close to that. If I replace my batteries with 7S LiPo and get a controller that can handle 400A, both of which are readily available, I should be deep into the 500s. Honestly speaking however, with no intercooler, I'm quite happy with 5ish PSI of boost and the rest I can get from spray.
I actually have been toying with the idea of doing something just like this. I found a company that i could buy cogged belts and pullys from to build the transmission. i also have a spare larger sized turbo that would work for this. However, In my very experienced opinion (more on that in a minute) i think you are going about it the wrong way. 7s isnt going to be enough. It was said above that you need higher voltage. And i agree 100%. The higher the voltage, the less amps, less heat and more efficiency you will have. Brushless controller available go up to about 300 amps. yea theres some **** china one (flier, alien etc.) but those ***** dont last. Ive been building high end, professional grade RC boats for several years now. Kind of a side thing i do, so i'm well versed in lipo and brushless. Motors exist to do this easily. controller and batteries are going to be the limitation.
Last edited by Kfxguy; Feb 27, 2020 at 05:26 PM.
So you could do something like 650kv at 16 cells, which would be roughly 40k rpm loaded. I prefer TP Power motors, they have a very large selection and their newer motors are holding up to higher rpms than they did a few years ago. Then you do a 3:1 pulley drive ratio (bigger pulley on the motor) to get 120k rpms out of the impeller. keep in mind that shaft speed because you'll need bearings that can take that kind of rpm. you could go with bronze bushings and oil feed it from the engine, but that adds complication. I'd incorporate a controller thats somewhat linear with throttle input and adjustable because you wouldnt want to jam all of that air in at a real low rpm. This is doable if you have the resources. I have the equipment and the skills and knowledge to do it, but I lack time and money. lol.
My Leaf quit charging and would not go into drive or reverse last august. Dealership still has not finished fixing it. Something took out the heating unit, a/c compressor motor, and who knows what else. Still had 2 weeks left on the high voltage system warranty, so it should cost me nothing, but still... I have paid an entire 6 months insurance premium on a car I have not been able to drive. Now back to your regularly scheduled misuse of electricity in a forced induction application.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 45
Likes: 3
Full disclosure I paid less than 2k USD for everything.
kfxguy: Notwithstanding your experience in the RC world, which no doubt is solid, I am happy to be proven wrong when I try it. I have done the math however and by all accounts it should work just fine. Efficiency may leave something to be desired but I assure you the powerplant I have now will produce boost, just not the sort of numbers we see in conventional blowers sold by big brands. It'll be "mild" in a sense but still 4-5 psi is nothing to sneeze at and being able to shape your own torque curve is titillating if nothing else.
kfxguy: Notwithstanding your experience in the RC world, which no doubt is solid, I am happy to be proven wrong when I try it. I have done the math however and by all accounts it should work just fine. Efficiency may leave something to be desired but I assure you the powerplant I have now will produce boost, just not the sort of numbers we see in conventional blowers sold by big brands. It'll be "mild" in a sense but still 4-5 psi is nothing to sneeze at and being able to shape your own torque curve is titillating if nothing else.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 45
Likes: 3
DDN, I do my calcs in terms of "mass" flow so that I avoid any problems like that, although I still need to know CFM at atmospheric pressure as an input. Mentally, I find it best to think of everything from a chemistry point of view. Matching mols of air to mols of gas, you will never go wrong. CFMs is more of a marketing commodity.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/h...ir-d_1363.html
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/h...ir-d_1363.html
DDN, I do my calcs in terms of "mass" flow so that I avoid any problems like that, although I still need to know CFM at atmospheric pressure as an input. Mentally, I find it best to think of everything from a chemistry point of view. Matching mols of air to mols of gas, you will never go wrong. CFMs is more of a marketing commodity.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/h...ir-d_1363.html
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/h...ir-d_1363.html
If the OP put this amount of effort into using electricity to just spool an over sized turbo to avoid lag, this thread could provide useful info. This could allow better fuel efficiency and better high rpm power, while minimizing the downside of turbo lag. Electronics could allow any overrun to feed power back to the batteries. As it stands, just trying to completely power a turbo with electricity is an inefficient fool's errand for a number of reasons. No offense, OP, but the oem's have been pouring millions into the sort of idea you are NOT going to make work.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 45
Likes: 3
That's a common misconception (ie. OEMs are not doing something so it's not worth doing). There are many reasons why a big company decides not to pursue a prospective technology. It may be totally doable but not cost-effective, or there are too many failure modes, or there's no existing supply chain, or there's no target market or the management isn't seeing its potential... or a million other things. You see evidence of this when 1 name achieves fame for doing something totally unexpected and then everybody follows suit - like those stupid christmas flood lights that paint stars on your house.
Speaking of efficiency, nothing is less efficient than a conventional supercharger. They are quite wasteful, especially the roots blowers. I would say that's almost a virtue for most gearheads, like it's something to be proud of. I would consider myself one of them. We like wasting power to make power usually. Electric motors on the other hand are usually better than 90% efficient, especially brushless DC and they have a very high power density too. Certainly no slouch. Finding a blower with a large electric motor and high power source is rare so far though, which is why products like Torque Amp have luke-warm results. But that's not a fair representation of what they CAN do with the right hardware. Don't worry. Just bear with me until I can get this all rigged up and I will prove it to you.
Speaking of efficiency, nothing is less efficient than a conventional supercharger. They are quite wasteful, especially the roots blowers. I would say that's almost a virtue for most gearheads, like it's something to be proud of. I would consider myself one of them. We like wasting power to make power usually. Electric motors on the other hand are usually better than 90% efficient, especially brushless DC and they have a very high power density too. Certainly no slouch. Finding a blower with a large electric motor and high power source is rare so far though, which is why products like Torque Amp have luke-warm results. But that's not a fair representation of what they CAN do with the right hardware. Don't worry. Just bear with me until I can get this all rigged up and I will prove it to you.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 744
Likes: 210
TECH Regular
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 467
Likes: 116
That's a common misconception (ie. OEMs are not doing something so it's not worth doing). There are many reasons why a big company decides not to pursue a prospective technology. It may be totally doable but not cost-effective, or there are too many failure modes, or there's no existing supply chain, or there's no target market or the management isn't seeing its potential... or a million other things. You see evidence of this when 1 name achieves fame for doing something totally unexpected and then everybody follows suit - like those stupid christmas flood lights that paint stars on your house.
Speaking of efficiency, nothing is less efficient than a conventional supercharger. They are quite wasteful, especially the roots blowers. I would say that's almost a virtue for most gearheads, like it's something to be proud of. I would consider myself one of them. We like wasting power to make power usually. Electric motors on the other hand are usually better than 90% efficient, especially brushless DC and they have a very high power density too. Certainly no slouch. Finding a blower with a large electric motor and high power source is rare so far though, which is why products like Torque Amp have luke-warm results. But that's not a fair representation of what they CAN do with the right hardware. Don't worry. Just bear with me until I can get this all rigged up and I will prove it to you.
Speaking of efficiency, nothing is less efficient than a conventional supercharger. They are quite wasteful, especially the roots blowers. I would say that's almost a virtue for most gearheads, like it's something to be proud of. I would consider myself one of them. We like wasting power to make power usually. Electric motors on the other hand are usually better than 90% efficient, especially brushless DC and they have a very high power density too. Certainly no slouch. Finding a blower with a large electric motor and high power source is rare so far though, which is why products like Torque Amp have luke-warm results. But that's not a fair representation of what they CAN do with the right hardware. Don't worry. Just bear with me until I can get this all rigged up and I will prove it to you.
I just don't get how charging a battery to power that turbine can be considered better than harnessing the waste gasses. It's not a stupid idea to stick a motor on the turbo but replacing the turbine entirely with it kind seems like a massive step backwards unless you're making some kind of electric/turbine powered hybrid turbo.
It's like I don't want to crap on the idea because it has so much room to expand into something really cool. But saying its better when its purely electric powered feels like someone being in denial about how damn efficient the turbo was before you thought about making it electric...It's a damn marvel on its own the way it is now, taking away the turbine feel like im trying to be sold a square tire.
Then why waste energy on the electric turbo then? All the components..the plastic, the silicon, the copper and wire and insulation, etc...you waste an order of magnitude more energy by driving the compressor off of a battery vs. the spend exhaust gasses. There is no conceivable way to me that you have a net increase in energy efficiency by adding in a battery and electric motor to the compressor over using the traditional turbine and powering it with gasses that are considered waste in any other forced induction methods. It's 0 parasitic loss.
I just don't get how charging a battery to power that turbine can be considered better than harnessing the waste gasses. It's not a stupid idea to stick a motor on the turbo but replacing the turbine entirely with it kind seems like a massive step backwards unless you're making some kind of electric/turbine powered hybrid turbo.
It's like I don't want to crap on the idea because it has so much room to expand into something really cool. But saying its better when its purely electric powered feels like someone being in denial about how damn efficient the turbo was before you thought about making it electric...It's a damn marvel on its own the way it is now, taking away the turbine feel like im trying to be sold a square tire.
I just don't get how charging a battery to power that turbine can be considered better than harnessing the waste gasses. It's not a stupid idea to stick a motor on the turbo but replacing the turbine entirely with it kind seems like a massive step backwards unless you're making some kind of electric/turbine powered hybrid turbo.
It's like I don't want to crap on the idea because it has so much room to expand into something really cool. But saying its better when its purely electric powered feels like someone being in denial about how damn efficient the turbo was before you thought about making it electric...It's a damn marvel on its own the way it is now, taking away the turbine feel like im trying to be sold a square tire.
if can be made to work, the packaging and ease of install could be attractive.