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i dont see it , i watch all the rpm build series videos , race proven motorsports , and see what my tuner posts , just go to a dual nozzle setup if you want more , but i dont see anyone doing direct port meth spraying .
I ran a direct port meth kit before I felt like doing my fuel system for E85. I ran straight M1 and it wasn't all that expensive of a setup, just a kit from ProMeth. Worked well and helped crux along my pump gas fuel system for awhile.
I ran a direct port meth kit before I felt like doing my fuel system for E85. I ran straight M1 and it wasn't all that expensive of a setup, just a kit from ProMeth. Worked well and helped crux along my pump gas fuel system for awhile.
I'm at the crossroads of water/meth of Flex fuel on my car. I have 1 or 2 stations nearby and converting to either is going to cost about the same. Opinions?
I was going to do DP meth with a single nozzle in front of the IAT sensor.
I'm at the crossroads of water/meth of Flex fuel on my car. I have 1 or 2 stations nearby and converting to either is going to cost about the same. Opinions?
I was going to do DP meth with a single nozzle in front of the IAT sensor.
Given the choice I would go E85. I don't even bother with flex fuel since most of the new stations by us all added E85 pumps so I just run it all the time.
my meth is in my tb before the blade, why would you put it before your iat , i dont think they like getting wet and wernt designed to be wet.
Its put in the path of the IAT as a failsafe because the sensor detects the flow of meth and can adjust timing for instance accordingly. You run out of flow/pump fails/no fluid/etc. and the timing drops. Mine is pre-TB blade too, but post IAT sensor, but I have a pressure switch in my pump feed line that lights a bulb when I reach 50 psi of pump pressure on the output of the pump and solenoid.
I should also state that I <3 water/meth injection after finally getting my feed wet on a kit for my daily driver. Added a kit to my rear mount car and it works awesome.
my meth is in my tb before the blade, why would you put it before your iat , i dont think they like getting wet and wernt designed to be wet.
You spray in front of the IAT to signal that methanol is flowing. From there you set all of your timing vs IAT tables to really low unless the meth is flowing. That will keep you from torching anything. It is very common. You can also use a fail-safe pressure switch as some systems have.
All depends how far your willing to take it. Most don’t go far enough to see the massive gains IMO. Typical alky pumps only flow 40-50gph or so at 13v and 100psi.
Basically 1gph of meth fuels 6.66 HP. So most decent single alky pumps can supplement about 260HP if using straight meth. What percent of your total power is 260 crank hp about? If you can supplement 50% of your fuel with methanol, it has higher octane and antiknock properties than E85. 20-30% of your total fueling with meth will still give you a very healthy octane and antiknock benefits. But the gains aren’t linear. So going from 50% to say 100% isn’t going to give you twice the benefit. No where near actually. 50% is a great target and could handle all the boost most of us would want to throw at an engine, even without an intercooler.
Just a data point, I struggled to hit 12 degrees of timing @ 10 psi on my setup, 10.5:1 LS6. I added a single M10 nozzle with nothing but windshield washer fluid and I get no knock at 12 degrees at 15 psi.
Just a data point, I struggled to hit 12 degrees of timing @ 10 psi on my setup, 10.5:1 LS6. I added a single M10 nozzle with nothing but windshield washer fluid and I get no knock at 12 degrees at 15 psi.
It does work well with 20 psi on twins on straight pump I was the same barely 11-12* on an 11:1 engine, after the 100% meth direct port install I could easily run 16-17* on the same boost. I had no need to lower IAT's so was using it as fuel only. I was running it on a progressive controller, you can give the pump a boost a pump feed as they work fine in 16v cars and generally run them at 250psi.
I've run typical dual nozzle setups before and the direct port just seemed better, more evenly distributed and smoother if you will. That said I ran a triple nozzle way back with nothing but windshield washer fluid like you said with no intercooler and it worked pretty damn well for what it was before the nicer systems came out.
All depends how far your willing to take it. Most don’t go far enough to see the massive gains IMO. Typical alky pumps only flow 40-50gph or so at 13v and 100psi.
Basically 1gph of meth fuels 6.66 HP. So most decent single alky pumps can supplement about 260HP if using straight meth. What percent of your total power is 260 crank hp about? If you can supplement 50% of your fuel with methanol, it has higher octane and antiknock properties than E85. 20-30% of your total fueling with meth will still give you a very healthy octane and antiknock benefits. But the gains aren’t linear. So going from 50% to say 100% isn’t going to give you twice the benefit. No where near actually. 50% is a great target and could handle all the boost most of us would want to throw at an engine, even without an intercooler.
very informative ! i have 300 psi snow ho pump but i dont know what is the max gph , i live in middle east and the fuel here is equal to 91 us octane and maybe worse , vp race fuels are so expensive so i think the direct port is worth it , my car is pushing around 750 whp so maybe 50 gph would be sweet if my meth pump support it
It does work well with 20 psi on twins on straight pump I was the same barely 11-12* on an 11:1 engine, after the 100% meth direct port install I could easily run 16-17* on the same boost. I had no need to lower IAT's so was using it as fuel only. I was running it on a progressive controller, you can give the pump a boost a pump feed as they work fine in 16v cars and generally run them at 250psi.
I've run typical dual nozzle setups before and the direct port just seemed better, more evenly distributed and smoother if you will. That said I ran a triple nozzle way back with nothing but windshield washer fluid like you said with no intercooler and it worked pretty damn well for what it was before the nicer systems came out.
You see the Holdener video comparing an A2W vs a meth kit? Was a little skewed and really would have liked to see a WM kit vs an A2A. Less people would probably run A2As lol.
You see the Holdener video comparing an A2W vs a meth kit? Was a little skewed and really would have liked to see a WM kit vs an A2A. Less people would probably run A2As lol.
I may have ffwd through it, hes a bit hard to watch to me. I've run all versions no intercooler no meth, only meth no intercooler, air to air, and air to water.
Obviously nothing is lighter and less lag but requires good tuning.
Only meth works in some race cars but most of the meth kits 3 gal tanks aren't enough for extended driving in a street car with the volume needed (with direct port I could empty a 3 gal tank in less than an hour of spirited driving).
Air to air is about the most dummy proof thing out there, no refills, no pumps to turn on or pumps to fail, etc... my big air to air added about 40 lbs to the nose but IAT's hardly ever got high.
Air to water has the best possibility of lowest IAT's but also usually the heaviest, but you can distribute that weight in a better spot. My air to water added about 20lbs to the nose, but I put the tank in the trunk and that 50lbs or so helps traction. With that move I took my lightweight battery (17lbs) off the nose and put a full sized battery in the trunk as well. Both changes helped street traction a good bit. You can have the pump run all the time but I think that is a waste and just heats up the reservoir, so I just hit the pump before making a pull. That said I just went around and ripped on my car, forgot to turn on the IC pump and IAT's still didn't get over 115* which is about what they hit with an air to air anyways. But with ice water and a good pump its possible to get sub ambient temps which is the draw the more complicated and heavier system.
I just get irritated with some of his vids because he compares stuff that most people already know the answer to. When he has the access to the Dyno and motors he does there are a bunch of slightly different tests that would be much more interesting to see.
I just get irritated with some of his vids because he compares stuff that most people already know the answer to. When he has the access to the Dyno and motors he does there are a bunch of slightly different tests that would be much more interesting to see.
Agree most of it is very boring... but he keeps the facetube kids that don't know anything entertained I guess.
so i have f1a procharged 20 psi pump gas street car setup using snow dual nozzle meth injection to supply the needed octane
does direct port injection worth the money and the time to me ?
Depends how much money is worth to you, and your time.
Is it better than what you currently have ? Of course it is. Although at only 20psi, unless it's poor fuel or not built with your chosen fuel in mind, methanol isnt needed.
Although IMO it seems difficult to make a nice and neat port injection system
All depends how far your willing to take it. Most don’t go far enough to see the massive gains IMO. Typical alky pumps only flow 40-50gph or so at 13v and 100psi.
A lot rate open flow at big numbers, maybe 3.75 to 4.0 LPM
In reality, at pressure, with boost via a nozzle...real world flows are much much lower. I extensively tested my AEM pump with various nozzles and at different duties etc. Real world I deemed it to have only around 1200cc of effective flow regardless of nozzles. ie. 1.2LPM.
Bigger nozzles just seen spray pattern turn to **** but no actual extra flow anyway. Or not enough to justify the poor spray.
In actual use, max pressure ever seen in the line is around 140psi. All these 200psi, 300psi claims etc...I presume are either against a dead head, or with extremely small nozzles.
But at least with a port system, you are helping to ensure a more equal flow to each cylinder.
That still seems to be a test that is unclear as to how good or bad some pre TB injection systems may be. I'd suspect a carb intake car might fair better as those manifolds were intended for wet distributions in the first place. But for other dry intakes....it'd be nice to see some individual cylinder lambda readings under load with some systems and different intakes, and the thermocouple in each runner that RH/Engine Masters did would be welcome to see as an actual test run at the same time, rather than 8 tests run at different times, 1 for each runner.
And even better held under load for maybe 10-15secs to get a proper test for heat soak and to allow the TC to stabilise, as all IAT sensors and most thermocouples are very slow to respond.
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methanol direct port injection ... worth it ? 
