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Could be wrong... The alt repair shop local to me stated the commutator run-out should be 30 micron or less and that none of the junk reman's have that kind of run out. They claimed the number 1 reason for the lack of charging at higher RPM is "brush bounce" caused by non-concentric commutators, weak springs, or worn/misshaped brushes. I've never even had one apart admittedly and am in no way an electric motor guy. But it made sense so that's what I regurgitate. The factory alt I had charged to 6800 on the factory pulley setup no problem.(that was my old shift point) I ran that ALT for years. When it died I had a hell of a time finding anything that would charge past 6k or so from the parts stores.
I ran the setup through my desktop dyno software and used a garrett gtx4718 which is fairly close and came up with these numbers on 24psi. Sorry for the sideways photo thats how it comes up no matter how I take it.
Ok so few updates. I degreed the stage 4 cam before putting the new one in and it was within spec unfortunately. So I threw the new cam in and first thing I did was check compression. Boom 180psi with just a few cranks. Instantly felt better about things, so I got everything back together and got it to the track saturday, had some retuning to do but in just 3 passes the car was hitting 6.1s around 20lbs and has soooooooo much more torque and response now.
unfortunately track was hot and very busy. And couldn't get the 60ft I wanted. Last pass of the night it was running like a raped ape but blew my charge pipe 100ft out but wouldve easily been a 5. Also i had to retune it quite a bit from the old cam so just creeping up on timing and boost now but overall very happy with the car. Now onto the charging issue. Its making things difficult after 5500 when it drops to 12v.
fuel pressure was fluctuating and doing wierd stuff from 6500 and up and compensating for that is almost impossible but I kept the afr's in check.
So yesterday I got my new 3" pulley on but havent done any datalogging yet. I feel like it's time to go to a 165amper as this 105 is basically tapped out currently. It doesn't help I'm running wasted spark/batch fire. Which brings me to my other issue being my cam sensor not functioning so I have some work to do still.. Slowly getting it where I want. And for those wondering the new cam is the summit Stage 2 Pro LS Cam. (Not the turbo cam) 226/238 113+3 .600/.600
we used this one based on my needs and to take advantage of the 103 turbine.. its seem to be perfect for what I'm doing.
Will keep up on updates..
Last edited by Boostedbrick; 07-06-2020 at 05:16 PM.
Great to hear! I run the same cam and really like it. 5.6x at 126 so far in the 4.8. Feather weight compared to your rig tho! Good luck and let us know on the charging thing!
Ok so few updates. I degreed the stage 4 cam before putting the new one in and it was within spec unfortunately. So I threw the new cam in and first thing I did was check compression. Boom 180psi with just a few cranks. Instantly felt better about things, so I got everything back together and got it to the track saturday, had some retuning to do but in just 3 passes the car was hitting 6.1s around 20lbs and has soooooooo much more torque and response now.
unfortunately track was hot and very busy. And couldn't get the 60ft I wanted. Last pass of the night it was running like a raped ape but blew my charge pipe 100ft out but wouldve easily been a 5. Also i had to retune it quite a bit from the old cam so just creeping up on timing and boost now but overall very happy with the car. Now onto the charging issue. Its making things difficult after 5500 when it drops to 12v.
fuel pressure was fluctuating and doing wierd stuff from 6500 and up and compensating for that is almost impossible but I kept the afr's in check.
So yesterday I got my new 3" pulley on but havent done any datalogging yet. I feel like it's time to go to a 165amper as this 105 is basically tapped out currently. It doesn't help I'm running wasted spark/batch fire. Which brings me to my other issue being my cam sensor not functioning so I have some work to do still.. Slowly getting it where I want. And for those wondering the new cam is the summit Stage 2 Pro LS Cam. (Not the turbo cam) 226/238 113+3 .600/.600
we used this one based on my needs and to take advantage of the 103 turbine.. its seem to be perfect for what I'm doing.
Will keep up on updates..
What is the recommended ICL and where was it at with degree wheel?
What is the recommended ICL and where was it at with degree wheel?
110⁰ atdc I got 109⁰
Originally Posted by 94heritage
I thought you got a cam from John???
I wish I couldve order thru john to show support but money wasnt there, I still owe my uncle for the summit cam lol
Based off what john told me the cam I have now was real close to what he recommended.
Anyone on here making 1000hp using wasted spark lol? I'll admit that the cam was definitely not the main issue as far as peak power goes. Its eating me alive what could be wrong. I'm wondering if the coils just aren't producing a hot enough spark to burn everything at higher rpm. It doesn't seem to be blowing out at all (d585 bkr7e gap .018" new plug wires) but maybe running these coils wasted spark there getting hot or weak at higher rpm??? Last year my 5.3 with ls1 intake felt faster and was running 5.9 on 18lbs with NO intercooler, but it was running sequential just fine.
Man, I hate these type of problems. I would rather see the bad part just fall off the car onto the floor. Here are a couple of things to ponder/check if you haven't already done so. Not saying any of these is the answer, but they are all things I've dealt with on my car and others I've tuned and worked on.
Are you using an external wheel and hall sensor for the wasted spark mode? If so and you're not already doing this, since the injs and coils are already wired for full sequential, you should run MS3X fuel/semi-sequential and Wasted COP. Double-check Injector Staging and Squirts Per Engine Cycle settings in Engine and Sequential Settings and Ignition Input Capture and Spark Out settings in Ignition Options.
How are the coils wired? Are they being powered by the 12V and GND in the MS3X harness? My engine was also falling off in the upper RPM ranges and learned the hard way that you need a lot of spark energy to light off E85 to make 1000+hp in high RPMs. Those power wires are probably 20g which is fine for a n/a engine lighting gasoline 1 coil at a time in fuel sequential. Not only are you trying to light a flood of E85, but you're firing 2 coils at a time. I solved my problem when I rewired the power leads for the coils. If you haven't already done so, I think it's good practice and I can draw up a diagram of how I did it. IMO, having to tighten up the plug gap down to the teens is a sign of a weak spark.
I notice you said you're running BKR7E plugs. Most all turbo LS I know of run BR7EF. The BKR7E is projected and also has a deeper reach and not smart enough to know how that affects power, but trying the BR7EF is a $20+ expense.
What dwell are you running with the D585s? Lots of scary Internet fables out there about this. I've been running 4.1 ms for years with no dwell table but with Dwell battery Correction to compensate for voltage fluctuations, especially if voltage falls off.
Carefully check your datalogs for Lost Syncs/Reason Codes and the Status Indicators bit settings.
FWIW my original 5.3 setup ran an LS9 cam. I didn't have the needed equipment to run the cam sensor up front. I ran the MS3x on wasted spark and batch fire with the square coils at a 5ms of dwell and .019 gaps up to 26lbs on the small T4 S475. Car ran great. Ran low 9's for over a year. I managed an 8.9x best, but got greedy and and bent a rod the next pass. (gen3 motor). I wonder if batch fueling is a little better for boosted drag setups? Wouldn't the extra inj pulses in the non active cylinders cool the cylinders/pistons a tad? Really on't think batch or wasted spark is the issue.
As mentioned your voltage could also be an issue. Check voltage at the coils at RPM. Did the larger pulley fix your voltage issues? The larger pulley did nothing for my charging issue. I have a boost-a-pump on my fuel pump. I've often thought it would be a good idea to run that to my coils as well but I was afraid I'd overrun the thing. I've also heard alot of folks really like the old square style truck coils. They don't "auto fire" like the D585 and I've heard of folk ruining 7ms of dwell on them! Visually the spark at 7ms from a square truck coil is much brighter than the D585s. Though on paper the D585 claims to be more powerful... I wonder!
Man, I hate these type of problems. I would rather see the bad part just fall off the car onto the floor. Here are a couple of things to ponder/check if you haven't already done so. Not saying any of these is the answer, but they are all things I've dealt with on my car and others I've tuned and worked on.
Are you using an external wheel and hall sensor for the wasted spark mode? If so and you're not already doing this, since the injs and coils are already wired for full sequential, you should run MS3X fuel/semi-sequential and Wasted COP. Double-check Injector Staging and Squirts Per Engine Cycle settings in Engine and Sequential Settings and Ignition Input Capture and Spark Out settings in Ignition Options. Thanks for the reply 2jzfc! I'm using the factory 24x trigger wheel and crank sensor only, still need to figure out the cam sensor just haven't had time yet. My settings are as you listed semi sequential using the and wasted cop using the logic outputs for coils off the extra harness. Injectors are all individually wired as well. Squirts are set at 2, alternating.
How are the coils wired? Are they being powered by the 12V and GND in the MS3X harness? My engine was also falling off in the upper RPM ranges and learned the hard way that you need a lot of spark energy to light off E85 to make 1000+hp in high RPMs. Those power wires are probably 20g which is fine for a n/a engine lighting gasoline 1 coil at a time in fuel sequential. Not only are you trying to light a flood of E85, but you're firing 2 coils at a time. I solved my problem when I rewired the power leads for the coils. If you haven't already done so, I think it's good practice and I can draw up a diagram of how I did it. IMO, having to tighten up the plug gap down to the teens is a sign of a weak spark.
The ms3 is only triggering the coils via the ms3x logic level outputs. Coils are using the stock style connectors. Both banks are founded to block and also grounded to sensor return as in instructions. Each bank has at least a 14ga power wire. However yesterday I realized I only had a 20 amp fuse feeding both banks coming from my fuse panel so I gave each bank there own 30amp fuse hoping this may help but idk. Injectors have a 20amp fuse.
I notice you said you're running BKR7E plugs. Most all turbo LS I know of run BR7EF. The BKR7E is projected and also has a deeper reach and not smart enough to know how that affects power, but trying the BR7EF is a $20+ expense. And yes I'm running the (3346) br7efs dont know why I said bkrs lol
What dwell are you running with the D585s? Lots of scary Internet fables out there about this. I've been running 4.1 ms for years with no dwell table but with Dwell battery Correction to compensate for voltage fluctuations, especially if voltage falls off. My dwell is set too 3.5ms, spark duration at 1ms. I've always thought the d585 couldn't take more then 3.5 or they'll "auto ignite" I believe I'm using the preset dwell table I'll have to double check.
Carefully check your datalogs for Lost Syncs/Reason Codes and the Status Indicators bit settings.
Good luck
I have looked for sync loss and codes but not getting errors..
Have a race this weekend
hoping giving the coils more juice will help but I'd think I would've popped the 20amp fuse..
Thanks for the help/ suggestions I'll keep messing with it!
I ran the setup through my desktop dyno software and used a garrett gtx4718 which is fairly close and came up with these numbers on 24psi. Sorry for the sideways photo thats how it comes up no matter how I take it.
06-29-2020, 11:05 AM
