And convert to DOHC with 4 valves per cyl?

 

I am planning to use RC Engineering 75# injectors (hi impedence). They should be supported by a good fuel system though and I don't know much about fuel systems other than the fact that Racetronix pump doesn't fit 03-Later Z06's.

How do you make a 03-Later Z06 with the new fuel system support 800 RWHP other than using 75# Hi Impedence injectors and Boost-A-Pump?

Would using a Iron block instead of C5-R block make a huge difference as the primary duty of the block is to withstand all tensile forces created by huge boost pumped by the F1-R?

Thanks.

 

I would prefer a C5R block but some would balk at the $6000 price tag for a bare C5R block with just main caps. Most end up buying a $700 6.0 block. That $6000 obviously does not even include a crankshaft.

My 348ci longblock probably cost less than $10,000 in total:
LS6 crate block, no crank, $600
Diamond stage I 6.0 heads, $1700
Stock crankshaft, $150
Diamond -8.6cc pistons: $600
ARP L19 rod bolts: $150
H11 head studs: $400
GM MLS 6.0 head gaskets: $100
FMS 230/236/115 cam: $400
Rollmaster dual chain: $150
LS6 intake: $350 (already had it)
Crane valve springs: $150
.100 longer Manley valves: $200
Eagle 6.125 rods: $600
Assorted parts: $1500
Labor: $1500

Those numbers are approximate, but I'm sure the total cost of my engine was between $7500 and $10,000. You don't need the best heads in the world to make 800rwhp with FI but you need the best head studs you can find and you need good headers (for blower car).

 

I wouldnt go with a 427 on an Iron block or the C5R block. Thats a lot of stress with a long stroke on any block. I would build a 370-388 cid 6L Iron block motor (new) Have the block fitted with thicker head bolts and use the AFR heads. I think you could build that motor for 11k. Then I would do a single turbo.

Do the Holdens (GTO) use the newwer fuel system? Whats different about it?

Starr performance offers a MAF delete kit with a 2 bar MAP. CAn we user that on the US cars?

 

You for sure need to feed it, so 75# injectors, racetronix, (whenever available), BAP and '97-'98 fuel rail setup or the coming-soon racetronix return system.

You'll need high flow cam and heads, low compression, ARP studs and forged internals. And boost needs to be nearer '20psi', however getting '20psi' on a motor with higher flowing components will load the blower much more than a 20psi on a 'stock' motor.

Coincidentally I have an LS6, D1SC/14psi, 75#s, Racetronix/BAP, ARP studs, forged 8.65:1 cr, Stg 2 blower heads and TR blower cam. I'm sitting at 550rwhp through stock exhaust. I'm also looking for +150-200rwhp, I'm thinking headers/cats will add 50rwhp (for 600rwhp) and +6psi (F1R/8rib) may add another 100rwhp.

 

By far the cheapest (~$25,000) route would be a high compression 422 (like MTI or ARE builds) or 427 with a 200ish shot.

I gotta admit that I chuckled when I read this, thinking of the recent posts on 1500 and 1700 rwhp. But like I said, this type of post always draws comments.

 

No actually being 6.0 liters means its 3x the static displacement. This makes up for being 2 valve.. 20psi boost on 3x the displacement should hit pass the 800hp mark easy..

 

Damn John you got raped on some of the prices you paid...... Im just playin i know those are aprox.

I agree with some of the people on here keep it a stock size stroke......


Just so you know your going to spend probably $2k + on your fuel system...... so racetronix pump is going to support 600 hp....... Your probably going to have to go with a race style tank with a external pump and all braided lines and aftermarket fuel rails and regulator.

 

I agree that that number should not be a problem, I just see alot of displacement comparisons between LS1/LT1's and DSM/2JZ, etc, but IMO it's not a good comparison.


Imports with their small displacement and 4-valve DOHC heads will always make more specific power than a big bore 2 valve V-8.

Not only do the heads flow great, but the small bore is much more resistant to detonation, allowing you to run ALOT more boost, pushing the turbos into the most efficient part of the map. (I don't think we'll often see 30-40+lbs of boost on an LS1)

 

Ok. I think I'm starting to get a picture here. Would the follwoing setup hold to 800+ RWHP? What do you guys think?

- GM 6.0L Iron Block Bored to 4.125
- Lunati Rotating Assembly with 4.000 stroke with -8cc dished pistons
- ARP 12pt Head Studs
- ARP Main Studs
- LS6 Stage IV O-Ringed Heads with 2.100 intake and 1.600 exhaust valves or AFR 225cc Heads
- 236/238 cam on 116
- FAST 90mm Intake manifold
- 90mm Throttle Body
- Procharger F1-R
- Front mounted air-to-air intercooler
- Fuel pressure regulator
- 75# Injectors
- KB Boost-A-Pump
- Some mysterious fuel pump and fuel lines ???
- Exedy Twin disk clutch with aluminum flywheel
- Heavy duty drive shaft
- Heavy duty differential with heavy duty output shafts
- Upgraded transmission linkage and fork and internals maybe??
- Plus labor, machining, installation, tuning, etc.

Wow, this list will cost lots of $$$$$

Is it worth it? Or should I just wait for C6 Z06?

 

You cant go 4.125 On a Iron block. The most i would go would be 4.030. But I would just keep the stock 4 inch bore. A 4 inch stroke would be the absloute max I would go.

So.

- Iron block 4.0 to 4.010 bore. Aftermarket main caps, studs, maybe even a girdle ect..
- 4 inch stroke or less
- A higher end crank rods pistons ect...
- AFR Heads 225cc ported (will also resist lifting)
- o ringed, head stud ect...
- FAST 90mm intake and TB
- Complete fuel system rails, regulator, lines, pump (s)
- a big single turbo or larger cent. blower

good luck keeping a T56 together very long, even a bult one. If I stay manual Im going to switch to a ritchmond.

Thats a good start.

 

I'm just completing a D1SC SIC on my C5. My goal was 500 rwhp ( on a Mustang dyno ). 800 rwhp can be done but it is going to cost you a fortune. For the amount of money you are going to spend you would probably be much better off just having LPE install a 427 TT. Expect to spend $40+K by the time you get 800 rwhp. Also keep in mind that 800 rwhp is for the most part useless on the street as you will be traction bound beyond belief..

Good luck,

Mark

 

You could make 600-700 rwhp much cheaper.

"sportsman" 346-348cid with cam and chain set - $3700 no core
Patriot LQ9/LS6 stage II heads -$ 1800 no core
Gaskets, fastners ect.... - $750
Fuel system, inj. bap, inline pump maybe rails - $1000 to $1300
Single turbo kit from QMP - $5500 ish (im guessing on this one)
Trans build and clutch/flywheel ect.- $3000 ish

You will have to have it tuned and someone do the labor

The above setup should get you to 650-700 rwhp in a car that you could just turn a **** and run pump gas. It would still be very drivable...... Thats what I would do if you were deciding on buying a C6 Z06 or building your car.

 

I agree. You're supposed to 'learn the throttle', but some days it's hard not to just friggen nail it.

 

I am new to this forum and this is my first post. I have a couple of questions and comments to make about this subject matter. It may seem like im trying to hijack your thread, but I am only going to try and help you with your goal to reach 800rwhp.

1st- I have been with the high horsepower rotaries for 4-5 years now. I recently signed up with this forum in hopes of technical help and so forth. The reason being that I am foregoing the task of swapping my beloved 13/20b for a LSx. I am not sure anymore though. I have dynoed 611hp from my turboed 13b-1.3L, another buddy I used to race with dynoed his 20b @ 846. If we are making this much power with so little displacment, why the difficulty with the MUCH bigger engines????

2nd- WTF is up with the pricing of your guys turbo/supercharger kits???? You guys cant be serious that you pay upwards of $6000-$10000 trying to achieve 800rwhp! If someone could please give me a breakdown of these prices to see where these funds are going, Are these companies utilizing inconel exhuast manifolds or something?LOL. Seriously, If these are "standard" kits- twin turbos(could be dual ceramic ball bearings), Wastegate(s), BOV, manifolds, oil lines,etc WHERE IS THE OTHER $2-6k coming in at?

3rd- Does anyone here utilize meoh injection on your setups???

4th- Could someone please give a brief description of what kind of CFMs these engines move, to correctly give an accurate compressor/turbine/AR sizing.

5th- I have been a long time Haltech enthusiast, and am very unfimiliar with the "EDIT" system. Is this a true SAMS? If not, MUCH more power can be attained from a true SAMS ie-Haltech, Motec, Fast, Microtech,Wolf,AEM, etc.

6th- If no one can give an accurate or reasonable breakdown of question 2- I WILL GLADLY START SELLING MY OWN KITS FOR THOSE PRICES!

 

A 2 rotor motor puts out the same exst. voulume as a 5L mustang the 3 rotors put out the same exst voule as a 6L or larger V8. You cant comapre displacement of the 2. Completely different.

The average power of a LS1 at the same peak numbers as a rotory will be much higher. The LSx will also make much more TQ and a much flatter power curve.

You will be able to make much more power with lower Octane....

 

I Think 800 Rwhp Is Very Attainable With The Block You Have I Also Might Have A Guy That Would Probably Sell You A Ls1 That Had A Big Bore Kit Put In It And Is Now A 422.

 

Why cant I compare the displacment when simply looking at PEAK power???lol

I mentioned nothing about comparing curves or torque #s in my questions either. And to add- how much of your flatter power band are you planning on using when you are running WOT in a race??? I know my shifting was done upwards of 8800rpm putting me very close to peak power when in the next gear.

I do understand that at the same hp, the LSx will make more torque and will more than likley make more power on lower octane......but I am simply stating- This guy said he wanted 800rwhp,right? Does that mean that he wants that on pump gas? 8psi? 10.5afr? nitrous? or what? He really didnt mention it. Only stating he wanted to know how to make 800hp. If that is the goal why not just run more boost and c16? I guess I should have asked at what psi he wanted to make the 800.

 

Just to clarify couple issues. Yes, I want 800 RWHP but I want it reliable, streetable and drivable. I don't want a dyno queen. I'm running 100 Octane Race gas right now. I have a nasty tune by RWTD. I am ok with the race gas as the 91 octane shitty gas price is $2.69 and going higher in SF whereas 100 Octane Unleaded Race gas is $4.3
What is wrong with boring a 6.0 L iron block to 4.125 bore? The number 427 is so appealing. I think that Vettespeed guy has a 427 Iron block.
I can start buying the parts starting with the engine piece by piece and take them to a respectable shop to be put together when my garage gets full of parts.
A new GM 6.0L iron block is around $700 I think.
Then, there are very good deals on Lunati rotating assemblies but I don't have the knowledge to order the right stuff.
Does Lunati do custom pistons? How do I determine the -cc value of the dished pistons? Why am I using dished pistons anyway? Does Lunati thermal coat the pistons or can I get it done somewhere else? Ordering bolt-ons was easy but ordering engine parts is difficult.
I need to take LS6 Motor 101. Maybe I should ask the guys at Internal Engine as these seem like internal engine specific questions.
I also need help on the transmission. Where do I go to make it bulletproof? Any vendors selling bulletproof trannies?
And finally, regarding the cost issue on supercharging a Z06. There would always a Corvette tax on items. The same company makes a turbo kit for F-Body LS-1's for say $5,000 and the same turbo kit for Corvettes for $8,000. Just a typical corvette tax. I didn't start it and I don't think I can end it. I bet QMP can manufacture, sell and install the same exact LPE Stage II kit for half of what LPE charges. $20k just for a twin turbo kit, labor and installation. Well, I should stop talking now.

 

The Iron block wont go to 4.125