Meth injection after throttle body
People run multiple nozzles of different sizes and injected at different spots all the time. I've done the HEET mod too, works really well to up the meth content before a track outing.
He's fuel system limited. It's alot cheaper to throw a WMI kit on it than to rehash your fuel system.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
I do always check my ethanol content and make sure it's right at 50%. I've done this for a while even before I was at the limits of my fuel system. Blower is already slightly over spun so I'm not adding power any way at this time. Seemed like a good time to experiment with meth injection and see how I like it. Just another tool in the tool box. I spent some time reading old water/meth threads here today and found a lot of good info.
On the topic of ethanol content and tuning for reference. I've had amazing results measuring ethanol content and using this calculation for stoich: (9 X % of alcohol) + (14.68 x % of gas) = Stoich. I can measure the ethanol content and calculate the stoich then input the stoich into the tune with no other changes and it's dead on AFR. Now since I'm at the limits of the fuel system I mix it myself to exactly 50% ethanol, but prior to that at lower boost I would just change the stoich in the tune according to the ethanol % I was running.
On the topic of ethanol content and tuning for reference. I've had amazing results measuring ethanol content and using this calculation for stoich: (9 X % of alcohol) + (14.68 x % of gas) = Stoich. I can measure the ethanol content and calculate the stoich then input the stoich into the tune with no other changes and it's dead on AFR. Now since I'm at the limits of the fuel system I mix it myself to exactly 50% ethanol, but prior to that at lower boost I would just change the stoich in the tune according to the ethanol % I was running.
TECH Regular
Joined: Nov 2018
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I do always check my ethanol content and make sure it's right at 50%. I've done this for a while even before I was at the limits of my fuel system. Blower is already slightly over spun so I'm not adding power any way at this time. Seemed like a good time to experiment with meth injection and see how I like it. Just another tool in the tool box. I spent some time reading old water/meth threads here today and found a lot of good info.
On the topic of ethanol content and tuning for reference. I've had amazing results measuring ethanol content and using this calculation for stoich: (9 X % of alcohol) + (14.68 x % of gas) = Stoich. I can measure the ethanol content and calculate the stoich then input the stoich into the tune with no other changes and it's dead on AFR. Now since I'm at the limits of the fuel system I mix it myself to exactly 50% ethanol, but prior to that at lower boost I would just change the stoich in the tune according to the ethanol % I was running.
On the topic of ethanol content and tuning for reference. I've had amazing results measuring ethanol content and using this calculation for stoich: (9 X % of alcohol) + (14.68 x % of gas) = Stoich. I can measure the ethanol content and calculate the stoich then input the stoich into the tune with no other changes and it's dead on AFR. Now since I'm at the limits of the fuel system I mix it myself to exactly 50% ethanol, but prior to that at lower boost I would just change the stoich in the tune according to the ethanol % I was running.
Can also crank the base fuel pressure up. the 4303 will go a LONG way on E50.
Is the setup intercooled? If not, I'd spray it all at the inlet. If it is... I'd still spray 1-3gph at the inlet and another 5 or so pre TB. 7-10gph is about the sweet spot for zero bog and washer fluid at 700-900 crank IMO. Little more for 50/50, and limitless on 100% meth.
The nozzles are almost always rated at 100psi. Yet most pumps put out 250-300psi. So there are calculations to do to determine flow vs pressure. You also need to subtract your boost pressure. That's of course assuming you want a semi accurate idea of flow. With Most on/off kits that's not critical information. I doubt you'll pick up anything power wise, but it will def. cool the CC down. Should be able to build a simple on/off kit for under $150 pretty easy.
Is the setup intercooled? If not, I'd spray it all at the inlet. If it is... I'd still spray 1-3gph at the inlet and another 5 or so pre TB. 7-10gph is about the sweet spot for zero bog and washer fluid at 700-900 crank IMO. Little more for 50/50, and limitless on 100% meth.
The nozzles are almost always rated at 100psi. Yet most pumps put out 250-300psi. So there are calculations to do to determine flow vs pressure. You also need to subtract your boost pressure. That's of course assuming you want a semi accurate idea of flow. With Most on/off kits that's not critical information. I doubt you'll pick up anything power wise, but it will def. cool the CC down. Should be able to build a simple on/off kit for under $150 pretty easy.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
Well I've got plenty of time to reevaluate my combination the Weiand intake I ordered now has an estimated delivery of September for the next batch. Holley support says they were supposed to get some last Friday, but now can't confirm to me if they did or not or give an ETA. All I can do is laugh at this point.
I don't have room with the 4303 to increase base pressure unless I boost voltage.
I don't have room with the 4303 to increase base pressure unless I boost voltage.
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Verdad Gallardo Well I've got plenty of time to reevaluate my combination the Weiand intake I ordered now has an estimated delivery of September for the next batch. Holley support says they were supposed to get some last Friday, but now can't confirm to me if they did or not or give an ETA. All I can do is laugh at this point.
I don't have room with the 4303 to increase base pressure unless I boost voltage.
I don't have room with the 4303 to increase base pressure unless I boost voltage.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
I don't know if I buy that short runner intake being an 1800-6800 rpm performer. The BTR Equalizer is in stock. As far as quality, fitment, and trusting the brand while fitting under a stock hood it's probably the only thing in stock I would consider. Unfortunately it kills so much power under 5000 rpm it just seems like a huge sacrifice for a guy shifting at 7000-7200 tops with a 3400 converter. Also even though I've began pulling some weight out of the car while keeping full interior it's still a very heavy street toy being a GTO. I'd give up a little down low to fit my other goals in an aluminum intake, but damn that seems like too much based upon the dyno's I've seen.
I don't know if I buy that short runner intake being an 1800-6800 rpm performer. The BTR Equalizer is in stock. As far as quality, fitment, and trusting the brand while fitting under a stock hood it's probably the only thing in stock I would consider. Unfortunately it kills so much power under 5000 rpm it just seems like a huge sacrifice for a guy shifting at 7000-7200 tops with a 3400 converter. Also even though I've began pulling some weight out of the car while keeping full interior it's still a very heavy street toy being a GTO. I'd give up a little down low to fit my other goals in an aluminum intake, but damn that seems like too much based upon the dyno's I've seen.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
IT would be curious to ask @Summitracing about it. It looks like they quote 2 different rpm ranges but only the TB appears different.
Looks like they have a shorter one with 92mm that actually claims 1800 to 6800 rpm. It says it requires their fuel rails also which have terrible reviews. LOL. I saw a dyno some where on here of the BTR with a stock 3 bolt throttle body and it actually gave up way less power below 6000 than the BTR did with the larger 102mm throttle body. All while not losing much above 6000 over the larger throttle body.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
Ok now that you mention it you were. LOL. I need to look up some dyno's of cathedral port versions of that intake again. The ls3 is really a great intake so basing my decision off the square port version vs the ls3 might not be accurate for the cathedral port vs ls6.
Well I've got plenty of time to reevaluate my combination the Weiand intake I ordered now has an estimated delivery of September for the next batch. Holley support says they were supposed to get some last Friday, but now can't confirm to me if they did or not or give an ETA. All I can do is laugh at this point.
I don't have room with the 4303 to increase base pressure unless I boost voltage.
I don't have room with the 4303 to increase base pressure unless I boost voltage.
Yanno almost all of those ls6 style cast intakes are the same... BBK, Weiand, speed master etc.. What do you mean you don't "have room"? What kind of power are you making? Should be able to make a solid 900whp on a 4303 on straight E85. E50 should go quite a bit farther? I was trapping 159 at 3000lbs. Have you verified voltage doesn't drop at RPM?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
HA! lol... I'd cancel my order at that point. Im waiting on an intake I ordered in November still!
Yanno almost all of those ls6 style cast intakes are the same... BBK, Weiand, speed master etc.. What do you mean you don't "have room"? What kind of power are you making? Should be able to make a solid 900whp on a 4303 on straight E85. E50 should go quite a bit farther? I was trapping 159 at 3000lbs. Have you verified voltage doesn't drop at RPM?
Yanno almost all of those ls6 style cast intakes are the same... BBK, Weiand, speed master etc.. What do you mean you don't "have room"? What kind of power are you making? Should be able to make a solid 900whp on a 4303 on straight E85. E50 should go quite a bit farther? I was trapping 159 at 3000lbs. Have you verified voltage doesn't drop at RPM?
I have no idea how much power I’m making. Trapped 114 at an estimated 3900 lbs race weight in the 1/8th at 2500 ish DA at 15 psi. Seeing 20 psi peak at 7000-7200 rpm before intake broke.
I do my own tuning. Do you think there will be tuning issues with a stock ls1 throttle body using an adapter for a 4 bolt 102mm opening on the BTR equalizer 1 intake?
Voltage is pretty constant at 13.7 to 13.9 volts.
Here is my pump setup.
Not saying the wallace calc is correct. The figures have always been high IMO… more like crank HP. But it’s all relative if we are using the same calc.
So using the wallace 1/8th calc puts you at 898. And my car at 955 on E85. My only point was w/ e50 you should have quite a bit more flow left. Should be able to crank the base pressure. Unless that supply is a restriction.
I'm sure the LS1 TB will work fine. But I had heard from Bob and a few others that the TB actually helps quite a bit on blower cars. I have little experience with them.
So using the wallace 1/8th calc puts you at 898. And my car at 955 on E85. My only point was w/ e50 you should have quite a bit more flow left. Should be able to crank the base pressure. Unless that supply is a restriction.
I'm sure the LS1 TB will work fine. But I had heard from Bob and a few others that the TB actually helps quite a bit on blower cars. I have little experience with them.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
Not saying the wallace calc is correct. The figures have always been high IMO… more like crank HP. But it’s all relative if we are using the same calc.
So using the wallace 1/8th calc puts you at 898. And my car at 955 on E85. My only point was w/ e50 you should have quite a bit more flow left. Should be able to crank the base pressure. Unless that supply is a restriction.
I'm sure the LS1 TB will work fine. But I had heard from Bob and a few others that the TB actually helps quite a bit on blower cars. I have little experience with them.
So using the wallace 1/8th calc puts you at 898. And my car at 955 on E85. My only point was w/ e50 you should have quite a bit more flow left. Should be able to crank the base pressure. Unless that supply is a restriction.
I'm sure the LS1 TB will work fine. But I had heard from Bob and a few others that the TB actually helps quite a bit on blower cars. I have little experience with them.
Im more concerned with idle/drive ability issues as far as the throttle body is concerned at this point. Adapter is cheap if it doesn’t work I’m not out much vs $450 for a 4 bolt 102 throttle body.
Possible the weight of the car and being a blower rather than a turbo effects fuel demand to make the power? Fuel tank is stock with a bung in it no sump so maybe that’s a restriction on the inlet as well.
Im more concerned with idle/drive ability issues as far as the throttle body is concerned at this point. Adapter is cheap if it doesn’t work I’m not out much vs $450 for a 4 bolt 102 throttle body.
Im more concerned with idle/drive ability issues as far as the throttle body is concerned at this point. Adapter is cheap if it doesn’t work I’m not out much vs $450 for a 4 bolt 102 throttle body.
Also run a 92mm ebay special on the new car... its pretty bad, I wont' lie. None of the supplied sensors fit (factory sensors either. Had to modify it quite a bit. Adjust blades, weld screws, fart with clearance etc... Id say I have a good 4 hours into making a $60 TB work. I much preferred my factory TB.