I ran, I think the AEM kit on my Hornet, no IC'er, had it come on around 5 lbs boost. I tried it pre turbo, and pre TB. What I used was the Boost juice, 50/50 (I guess tech 49/51, which is considered non flamable). I bought 4 gallons, which would last a long time. Couple times I hit 15 lbs, never saw any plug damage, but normally kept it around 12 lbs.

 

You see any difference pre vs. post turbo? Lot of back and forth data on that.

 

One thing about before the turbo is even if you get it to evaporate (you wont) the turbo wheel is just a big centrifuge, throwing all the liquid to the outside of the housing and separating it from the air. I would default to injecting after the turbo.

 

I've talked to other people who tested and had their best ET and power spraying pre turbo. The general rule of thumb that I've arrived at is this:
-Spray post turbo if you are not turbo limited and want to pull as much heat out of the combustion chamber as possible
-Spray pre turbo if you are turbo limited or have a need to shift the compressor map to the right.

 

Good morning gents,
Because I feel its important to mention when working with vendors/suppliers, I reached out to both ProMeth and Alky Controls and both responded back to me within an hour or so.
Rodney from Prometh actually called me on the phone and spoke with me for about 30 minutes, he recommended twin nozzles as far down the intake as possible after the last bend so the straightest shot into the TB.
He also highly recommended injecting into the volute of the compressor for the best distribution as opposed to twin nozzles which I'm strongly considering.
Direct injection would be ideal but he didn't feel my application or goals warranted the cost although it would look really cool.
Julio emailed me with his car as an example which is almost identical to my application (88mm, 347 sbf, 30 lbs. of boost, pump gas only), he recommended a kit and twin nozzles, same recommended locations as Prometh.
Both recommended spraying 100% meth since I'm looking for the tuning window and not the reduction of IAT's, both of their kits are built for it, companies that don't recommend it do so because they use components that aren't 100% meth compatible which didn't surprise me.
Both said you want the nozzles as far upstream of the TB as possible giving the mixture the most time to mix with the air, my idea of nozzles behind the TB would have been problematic so I'm really glad I asked.
Hilariously I contacted my buddy who I bought the car from and asked him if he experimented with WMI at all to which he replied he has an Alky Controls WMI kit he bought for the car that he's gonna dig out and make me a deal on so it would seem as though fate wants me to run WMI lol.
What are your guys thoughts on storage?
My car sits in the garage during the fall winter months from October to April so six months out of the year.
Do I need to pickle the system or just use the Klotz as @pdxmotorhead suggested?
I was going to ask Julio and Rodney as well.

 

Rodney/Julio said this same thing, pre-turbo is what the Auzzie ProMod guys were doing to reduce IAT's when running the turbo maxxed out and outside its efficiency range so essentially shifting the compressor map but also making more boost since the W/M changes the density or the air. (it was a bit over my head to be honest lol)
Then the ProMod rules changed and now they inject directly into the volute of the turbo which when using an IC of some kind can have a compound effect on cooling.
Rodney only ever had two guys who had compressor wheels get damaged and they were both unknown offshore turbos but they've done this on thousands of other cars with excellent results.
Really thinking injecting into the volute may be the way to go but I need to confirm with Julio that his kit will do that.

 

Cooling that happens in the CC can’t increase mass airflow. Cooling that takes place in the turbo as it is compressing and before the intake valve closes can. If you aren't running an intercooler, no reason not to spray pre-turbo. That said, it won't work as well as your A2W IC at cooling the charge. If you are keeping the A2W. Don't spray pre turbo.

 

This is not so... *iF* spraying 100% meth the fluid will flash to a gas within the turbo and pull heat from the compression process. It won't sling anything the the outside of the housing as it will vaporize at 150*.

On a side note... With 50/50 water it will likely sling fluid to the sides... and this is actually beneficial. It basically tightens the tolerances within the housing making it more efficient. It's called "Wet compression" and increases the pressure ratio. Again... all good things. Zero reason not to spray pre turbo without an IC.


This is all just random facts pulled from the internet when I was reading about his stuff. I’m no expert, and don’t claim to be. Google it yourself. TONS of interesting stuff out there. The WWII water injection testing on supercharged engines is pretty insane. They used water injection on turbojet engines as well to increase efficiency and take off power.

 

Yep, different strokes for different strokes depending on turbo sizing and whether you need as much cooling as possible or not. I can't say I've seen any real corrosion spraying ~30%. You get a nice blue tint to things lol, but that's about it.

 

Yup, always 100% meth for the best results with an appropriate system rated for that like AlkyControl. We've been using Julio's setups for more years than I can count and they work well and their newer pumps are resealable at home and you don't need to send them back anymore. Seals will go out every couple of years and start leaking at the pump and it's not hard to redo them and twin M10 nozzles would work well for your setup. I would not use the Cortex EBC to control it and just use the AlkyControl controller and you can adjust how progressive you want the flow and where you want it to start spraying, etc. With twin M10 nozzles you will probably need to pull out a point and a half AFR in your main tune to compensate for that volume of methanol, not sure what computer you are using but it's straight forward either way some are just easier to deal with than others.

 

Julio suggested using the controller also but also using the either the tank level or pressure switch wired to the EBC so if the level or pressure is low, I'm only on gate pressure which I thought was a slick idea.
Julio suggested twin M15 nozzles actually but I'm wondering what I'd need if spraying into the volute, I haven't asked yet.

 

Update:
Julio says injecting into the volute when using a blow off valve is a big no no which makes a lot of sense.
And I'm back to the intake tube which is no biggie anyways.

 

People still use blow off valves?

The other issue is you can have a flammable AFR in the charge pipe. Backfire through the intake on a sealed system and you've got a bomb. Kevin Jewer sprayed 500ish hp worth of meth preturbo without an IC. Worked great... until a backfire blew it all to hell. blew the front end of the car apart, hood bumpers etc... Burst panel is a good idea. They also make those old school "popoff valves". Looks like a BOV. But its spring loaded to release at a specific pressure. So in the event of an explosion, it would release pressure.

Might ask Julio about that... 2m15's is basically 30gph at 100psi. So a bit more at higher pressures. That may not be enough to be explosion prone.

 

Real street car life lol. K.I.S.S. twin M10 nozzles in the intake tube and get rolling and adjust from there.

 

You might find this useful.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1621505530


FWIW I've used meth injection for over 20 years. I bought Julio's kit when he first started his business and he had a TTA. It was the GN guys who pioneered this stuff. I've tried the 50/50, windshield washer fluid and 100% meth. Meth works best and for us Canucks we can buy it at any big box reno store for not much money.

 

I NEVER spray in the compressor on a turbo/centri setup, only right before the throttle body for the reasons mentioned below. And yes with that EBC you can use some of the safeties for boost control, I just wouldn't use the built in functions for meth control at all.

 

Appreciate the share but I have no idea what to do with this lol.

 

It's just a tuning tool. He's showing a calculator to show how the meth content skews the target AFR depending on content and amount.

 

Think about it from a liquid, mass, and surface area calculation. If you have a turbocharger spinning 50,000rpm, and then liquid hits the blades, that is incompressable mass that the turbo now has to accelerate and sling outwards. This is exactly what it does with air but air has almost no viscosity or hysteresis, and is compressible and only 1/800 the density of water. If it actually is inside of the housing as a liquid in any significant amount that would put it in shear and mean huge losses to viscosity. Once it gets squeezed past the compressor housing now this liquid is going to centrifuge out and smack against the outside of the inlet, and then it will start to evaporate as air passes over it, not longer a fine mist with a surface area of meters squared per gram but a layer of liquid on the inside of the cold side outlet.

Maybe the saving grace is that this is just a small amount of mass, its not like a carburetor drawing into a turbocharger. The surface area of the inside of the turbo may be so much larger than the water available to wet it that it becomes inconsequential.

 

I also use it to calculate my equivalent octane. Since the topic was meth vs race gas you could see where you are. Not that pump gas and meth is the exact same thing as running just race gas but that is a different topic.

Plug in you "inputs" and see what you are working with.

This is not my work BTW. All credit goes to MightyMouse.